EZ Water and Bru'n Water First time out

[andyg]

Hi people

Hope you can help by looking at my ez water and bru'n water files and sanity checking for me. My main concern with both of these files is that they call for 10ml (ez water) and 18ml (bru'n water) so a 8ml difference. I'm using 80% lactic acid. I have hard water - 260 CaCO3

I have actually brewed this as I was confident I knew what I was doing hahahaha – I ended up using the bru'n water additions of acid i.e. 18ml after slowly adding acid to my total water it did take 18ml to get down to 5.4 ph - So why is ez so different?

After doing some reading I can't find conclusive answers to the question - Is 18ml of lactic acid too much? I have read that J Palmer says that as long as the dose is no more than 2ml per gallon you shouldn't taste any souring. I used 18ml per 36.3 litres. So US gallons (I'm in the uk) = 36.3/3.78541 ltrs. So 9.58 gallons. So just under JP's dosage.

Also I have read that acid additions shouldn't be above a certain % of total grain bill. My bottle of acid says 12.5ml = 15g. So 18ml = 21.6g. So % of acid to grain = 21.6g/4881g * 100 = 0.44% ---- Is this the correct way to calculate this figure??? Seems too low?

I have also read that Lactic acid doesn't add ANY off flavours. I suppose I will find out. All my tasting so far has me paranoid that I can taste sourness, annoying! (It's day 4 in the fermenter at the moment)

I have read quite a bit about reducing the carbonate levels by using RO water or distilled water, but is there an issue to just adding 18ml of lactic acid?

Sorry for all the questions I would really appreciate anyones thoughts especially if you take time to look at my files.

Sorry I don't have my biabacus file to hand. It's a Graham Wheeler Black sheep recipe 27 ltr batch. Scaled using biabacus.

View attachment Brun Water v1_16bsi Black_Sheep_Ale 25_10_14_v2.xls.zip

View attachment EZ_water_calculator_3.0.2_metric_Black_Sheep_Ale 25_10_14.xls.zip

 

[mabrungard]

The lactate ion certainly has a flavor! It is a smooth, twang in the flavor. Think of sour cream and its flavor. That is the acid and the lactate ion imparted by lactic acid. In the case of sour cream, it is lactic bacteria that produce the lactic acid.

If your water has high alkalinity, then it is possible to add too much lactic acid and incur that lactate flavor. If your water has more that about 200 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3, you could be tasting the effect with lactic acid. Another thing you could do is use two or more acids so that you don't overload your beer with something like lactate. The next version of Bru'n Water will include the ability to add multiple acids to either the mash or sparging water.

 

[andyg]

The lactate ion certainly has a flavor! It is a smooth, twang in the flavor. Think of sour cream and its flavor. That is the acid and the lactate ion imparted by lactic acid. In the case of sour cream, it is lactic bacteria that produce the lactic acid.

If your water has high alkalinity, then it is possible to add too much lactic acid and incur that lactate flavor. If your water has more that about 200 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3, you could be tasting the effect with lactic acid. Another thing you could do is use two or more acids so that you don't overload your beer with something like lactate. The next version of Bru'n Water will include the ability to add multiple acids to either the mash or sparging water.

Interesting what you say about the next version of bru'n. My water is 260 ppm CaCO3 so I added 18ml of lactic acid. I tasted the water after adding it and it wasn't overly sour. Maybe a slight sour after taste but like I say I'm now paranoid it was too much and I'm kidding myself it's sour.

I'll wait to taste again after a couple of weeks in the fermenter.

So I can add different acids! Thats interesting as I was planning on having to dilute the water to restrict the amount of acid addition. Which is a bit of a faff and will throw off all the other mineral readings. Are there acids available that I can add at high levels that don't impart flavour?

 

[mabrungard]

Phosphoric acid tends to be the most flavor-neutral acid for use in beer. However, using acids like hydrochloric or sulfuric or CRS can add flavors that may be desirable in the finished beer. So, a combination of lactic and any of these acids may be desirable to avoid bringing any of these acids to a high enough level to be tasted.

 

[andyg]

Phosphoric acid tends to be the most flavor-neutral acid for use in beer. However, using acids like hydrochloric or sulfuric or CRS can add flavors that may be desirable in the finished beer. So, a combination of lactic and any of these acids may be desirable to avoid bringing any of these acids to a high enough level to be tasted.

Desirable or undesirable?

I've just ordered some crs and may try adding a small amount of lactic acid, then retesting for alkilinity content and then adding crs. Seems like a good idea as crs is apparently a blend of acids. Hopefully this way i'll not be adding any one acid in large doses.

I'll check out the Phosphoric acidtoo.

Thx

 

[mabrungard]

CRS does have the 'advantage' of adding both chloride and sulfate, but it can also be a disadvantage too. It adds similar concentrations of each of those ions to the brewing liquor and that can be a bad thing if you want to boost only one or the other. High sulfate or high chloride are OK, but having both of them at high levels can introduce 'minerally' flavor to the beer. I prefer to keep chloride down around 50 ppm when I'm boosting sulfate to the high levels appropriate for bittered beers (200 to 300 ppm).