extracting bitterness from hops

[azzothegreek]

Fairly basic question to the well initiated amonsgt you, What temperature should I be boiling hops at to extract the bitterness? I ask this as i have been experimenting with kits. I don't have the time for AG grain brewing at the moment so have resorted to splitting two can kits and making up the difference with spray malts, brown sugar and honey. I'll use a two can kit to make two separate brews, each brew utilising one of the cans and a mixture of honey, spray malt and brown sugar. I obviously need to add some bitterness and hop flavour to each brew and judging by some recipes on here I steeped x amount of hops at 80 degrees for 90 minutes. i'm now thinking that maybe I should have boiled the hops at a higher temperature rather than steep at 80 degrees as i chopped down on a steeped hop after i finished and it was still very bitter, leading me to believe that I had not extracted all its goodness.

 

[rodwha]

It needs to be boiled. It may be that near boiling is enough, but I'm not sure.

 

[nobyipa]

in kits to increase the bitterness you can use Isomerised Hop Extract which involves no boiling



http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/isomerise ... wwodL3IAfw

 

[pogierob]

Check out this thread. As it is quite informative.
http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/quest ... ture-drops

Also I find this pic to be helpful too (based on boiling)

Hope this helps.

Rob.

 

[azzothegreek]

indeed it does rob, Thanks. Its seems that time can compensate for temperature in extracting bitterness.

 

[graysalchemy]

indeed it does rob, Thanks. Its seems that time can compensate for temperature in extracting bitterness.

No it doesn't it needs to be boiling and if I am right it needs to be in a wort as well to isomerise ie using a hop tea will not fix the alpha acids in the hops.

Steeping will extract the aroma. However if you are using kits and you are having to boil it any hop aroma that may have been in the kit will be lost unless you just boil up the spray malt that you are adding.

Why not go down the extract route or just use the kit as is :wha: :wha:

 

[thomascrabs]

Take a look at this:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html

I've been researching enhancing kits a bit recently and reading this whole book gives you a much better understanding of everything.

 

[thomascrabs]

Oops didn't see the previous post. I assumed the same I think based on isomerisation being a process that occurs in solution?

 

[azzothegreek]

Why not go down the extract route or just use the kit as is :wha: :wha:

I like to fiddle around to see what happens. Hands on fiddling leads me to thinking about the process more, asking questions and developing a better understanding of the whole process. If I used kits as is I'd learn nothing and my tampering with kits is a forerunner to going extract/all grain brewing. I can taste the results of my tampering which also helps me in understanding the chemistry of it all and gets me thinking of alternative ways of doing things.

You could just say "why not read a book about it then" and you'd be right. My brain works in a particular way and just reading about it does not always stick. Making mistakes and tasting things first hand sticks much better than reading a book for me. I'm a bit weird like that.

 

[graysalchemy]

Good Point. :clap: :clap:

I always advise people to dabble with extract before going AG so as you get an understanding of each element of a brew, before going AG. :thumb:

 

[rpt]

You could just say "why not read a book about it then" and you'd be right. My brain works in a particular way and just reading about it does not always stick. Making mistakes and tasting things first hand sticks much better than reading a book for me. I'm a bit weird like that.

That's not weird. You cannot beat experience.

 

[anthonyUK]

There is an interesting discussion on another forum regarding 'no-chill' where the wort is not immediately cooled quickly but left overnight to cool slowly to pitching temp.
One person has mentioned overly bitter beers that have been resolved by using an immersion cooler so it would appear that the isomerisation process does continue at lower temps.
I know it's not the most scientific of posts but calculating hop extraction in anything but the boil is not an exact science yet. Most brewing software has no calculations for it.

 

[graysalchemy]

One person has mentioned overly bitter beers that have been resolved by using an immersion cooler so it would appear that the isomerisation process does continue at lower temps.
I know it's not the most scientific of posts but calculating hop extraction in anything but the boil is not an exact science yet

Or the fact that rapid chilling causes the proteins to fall out more efficiently taking the Isomerised hop oils with them, hence the reason why high ABV beers need more hop as more is lost in the increased trub.

 

[rodwha]

I've always messed with the few Mr Beer kits I've had. They just didn't (before Cooper's bought them) do a good job and were often not even within specs for the style.

I'd toss the booster (corn sugar mostly) and use DME, add my own hops for additional flavoring and aroma, and then toss their yeast in favor of US-05 or something else.

But those kits aren't cost effective, and so I've only bought them when they were found at a garage sale or something, but I had bad experiences with those as they weren't stored properly.

Instead of buying the higher quality beer kits (MoreBeer) I've looked at their recipe sheets and dabbled with what was shown. It's what I've also done when interested in something I'm not familiar with. After that I'll look at recipes on the forum to get a better understanding of what's used and in what increments, formulate a recipe and post it asking for advice.

 

[pogierob]

As far as the no chill method is
Concerned. The rule of thumb is to decrease hop addition time by 20 mins.

So 60 minute bittering addition is actually added at 40 min point of the boil.

20 min addition at flame out

Flame out addition into the cube after whirlpool.

I believe chilling is better although I have not done a comparison on identical brews that have been done each way.

Will report back if I do.

 

[Duxuk]

I don't chill. I only tend, in a 20l brew, to add about 10g of hops at 60 mins (10%ish AAs). Then I'll use 30g of high alpha hop at 20 mins, 20 at 10mins and 50g at flameout, cooled naturally to 90C. I'll then use 20-30g as dry hops at 7-10 days.
This method is making the best 5-5.5% ABV ales I've ever tasted! :
If I use 20g of hops at 60mins it's just too bitter. Spreading the hops gives the full range of taste. :drink:

 

[rpt]

As far as the no chill method is
Concerned. The rule of thumb is to decrease hop addition time by 20 mins.

So 60 minute bittering addition is actually added at 40 min point of the boil.

20 min addition at flame out

This makes no sense to me. If you are no-chilling in a cube, then the hops will be left in the boiler and so will be in contact with the wort for less time than if you are using an immersion chiller. So I would have thought you need to put the hops in for longer, not less. Adjusting the timings like this would make sense if you are just leaving the wort in the boiler to cool over an extended period.

Flame out addition into the cube after whirlpool.

This makes more sense as otherwise you are putting the hops into the wort and them immediately removing the wort and leaving the hops behind.

 

[pogierob]

Perhaps I should have clarified by saying I don't use hop bags, so everything from the boil goes into the cube.
As there is no chill the Hops are exposed to hot wort temperatures which still extract AA's until the temperature drops. Therefore the longer you boil, the more is extracted.
I forgot to adjust for a batch once and the beer was far too bitter to enjoy.

 

[pogierob]

It's probably worth mentioning that it's the oils extracted out of the hops that contain the AA's so even if you used hop bags, the AA's in the already extracted oils will continue to bitter while boiling.