Extract brewing - no requirement to boil the extract?

[drf]

Another extract brewing question as things keep occuring to me. Is there any _requirement_ to boil mail extract in terms of either clarity of beer or wort composition in regards to hop utilisation? For example, in a brew containing dried malt extract and a quantity of, say, crystal malt would there be anything wrong with

-steeping the crystal in heating water, removing at 70C
-bring to boil, add hops, boil 60-90'
-cool
-add to dried mail extract dissolved in water

I guess I'm asking if there's anything in dried malt extract that you'd want to be removed by hot/cold break formation. I'm guessing not as dried malt extract can be used in place of table sugar when making up single can beer kits.

Cheers

Chris

 

[RobWalker]

it's quite pointless to boil up the hops without the extract because the lower boil volume you have, the less bitter oils you will extract from them. I get by on a 10 litre boil but use a fair amount of hops in doing so - doing a few litre boil would leave you with very low utilization.

Hot and cold break drop the proteins out of the malt too, resulting in clearer beer.

 

[artiums_enteri]

The main reasons extract is boiled for an hour with hop additions is to get those alpha acids into the wort, but also it's imperative to get a hot and cold break to break down the proteins and more importantly dissipate DMS in the extract. By not boiling you run the risk of cooked vegetable and twangy beer.

 

[drf]

it's quite pointless to boil up the hops without the extract because the lower boil volume you have, the less bitter oils you will extract from them. I get by on a 10 litre boil but use a fair amount of hops in doing so - doing a few litre boil would leave you with very low utilization.

But is that a function of boil volume (i.e. a limit on hop compound concentration) or protein concentration in the wort (which would be high for a low volume boil with an amount of extract equivalent to full volume)

Hot and cold break drop the proteins out of the malt too, resulting in clearer beer.

Yes, for a mashed wort. I was wondering whether these proteins are also present in dried malt extract.

Probably all better safe than sorry anyway and boil everything up eh!?

 

[artiums_enteri]

It's becoming very common now to boil the hops for the prescribed time in the full volume, but add the extract (dry or liquid, folks here usually only use DME to bring up wort gravity on missed numbers or to make yeast starters,) and boil the extract for 15 minutes. This is said to still give you the desired hot and cold break, sanitize the DME, but also helps alleviate the extract twang some believe comes from scorching or caramelizing the extract.

 

[graysalchemy]

I think the proteins of the wort are required to fix the hop bitterness without out it no bitterness, I might be wrong on that. Also you need to secure the break In order to have clear beer. You will also need irish moss/ profolac to aid this.

 

[RobWalker]

I think the proteins of the wort are required to fix the hop bitterness without out it no bitterness, I might be wrong on that. Also you need to secure the break In order to have clear beer. You will also need irish moss/ profolac to aid this.

wouldn't that just be the balance between the bitter hop oil and the sweet non fermentable sugars left behind? Oils are definitely extracted from hops regardless of what they're boiled in.

 

[graysalchemy]

Bitterness doesn't come from the oils but the alpha acids, aroma and flavour come from the oils. The alpha acids have to be fixed.