Extract brewing: DME v LME

[Elliott75]

Hi all,

I was hoping to read more about this on here, but a few hours of searching on here, and I've not really found much.

I've now done two extract brews (IPA and Kolsch from Greg Hughes book) and used spraymalt both times. Any recipe I've read seems to suggest it's a given I would use dried over liquid and don't suggest it as an option.

As I understand it, using dried rather than liquid can lead to less of that homebrewy taste, which I would say is fair enough based on tasting my first two efforts, which are pretty damn good. However, DME can be pretty expensive, especially when I don't have much storage space to bulk buy or try and get over a free-postage hurdle.

I then look at websites out there who make up extract brew kits to order and they seem to universally include liquid, rather than dried, which seems to counteract this point. Will you get worse results by using liquid? Is it likely that this is fresher LME than other sources, and so likely to taste better, and so not as big a problem?

In short, should I stick to DME? Or should I mix it up a bit? What do people do?

 

[Drunkula]

http://brulosophy.com/2019/05/27/li...-vs-dry-malt-extract-dme-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2017/11/27/the-impact-of-age-on-liquid-malt-extract-exbeeriment-results/

 

[terrym]

I used to do extract brewing, and I still use DME for partial mashes.
When I used LME, especially in quantity I could sometimes get the homebrew twang. I have never had that with DME.
So my view is if you have a choice, always go for DME, but if you don't small quantities of LME are OK for topping up a one can kit say, but some cheap or old LME is to be avoided if used in quantity.
And the reason made up extract kits usually come with LME is that its cheaper so that keeps the cost down and makes things more attractive to buyers.
Next I buy my DME in quantity from The Homebrew Company at a very reasonable cost, but as part of a large order to take advantage of the free P&P over £70 purchase value.
Finally one thing to remember is that DME goes a bit farther than LME. I use 1000g Pale Malt= 750g LME = 650g DME
And if you haven't come across this on your travels on this site, this might be helpful.
A Simple Guide to Extract Brewing

 

[Elliott75]

http://brulosophy.com/2019/05/27/li...-vs-dry-malt-extract-dme-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2017/11/27/the-impact-of-age-on-liquid-malt-extract-exbeeriment-results/

Love these!!! What great reads, thank you!!!

 

[MrRook]

Lme or dme? The most important consideration is freshness.
In the USA there are some extracts in liquid form that are not available in dry.
This schwartz bier was made with a black extract only available from one HBS. It came out excellent.

 

[Dutto]

If I want to try something new, I purchase un-hopped LME rather than a Kit.

I then boil up a 1.5kg tin LME (diluted with about 10 litres of water) with the required hops for about an hour. (*)

The finished product is then poured into the FV, mixed with the required amount of DME to bring it up to the required ABV (usually about 500g) and then further diluted to 21 litres with cold water before adding the yeast and sticking the FV in the fridge to ferment.

When would I do this? Whenever I want to try something a bit different and can't find a kit that comes close to what I'm trying to achieve. e.g. My first attempts at brewing a Batemans Gold which is a very citrussy tasting light ale. I failed miserably!

(*)
SWMBO complains bitterly of the smell if I boil up the wort on the kitchen stove - so please "Beware"!

 

[Clint]

Does boiling the lme change it in any way?

 

[Dutto]

Does boiling the lme change it in any way?

I used the system last year to make an EXTRACT CHERRY PALE ALE as follows:
22nd June 2019
Started with 1.5kg Coopers Pale LME + 400ml of Lowicz Cherry Syrup.
Brought to boil with 10 litres of water.
Boiled 25g EKG Leaf for 50 minutes. (Bittering Hops)
Flameout
Cooled brew to 80*C by adding water then steeped 20g of Cascade Leaf for 10 minutes. (Aroma Hops)
Poured brew into FV and added:

• Water to 21 litres.
• Yeast nutrient.

Cooled to 25*C, took OG and pitched rehydrated American PA Yeast.
Fermenting at 23*C in Brew Fridge 1.
30th July 2019
No activity in blow-off for three days.
Started cold-crash to 10*C
3rd July 2019
Took FG and transferred to Growlers “C” and “D” with 9g of sugar.
Carbonating on work-top.
DETAILS
OG = 1.028
FG = 1.010
ABV = 2.4% (after carbonation)
Kcal per Litre = 272Kcal
NOTE:
This is first attempt at “Extract Brewing” to own recipe!
Forgot to add Hop Tea!

Back in the 1960's (when kits were terrible) this is the way I used to brew beer so I thought I would give it a whirl again. There's none left of the "Extract Cherry Pale Ale" so it must have been a decent brew!

 

[terrym]

Does boiling the lme change it in any way?

Not that I really noticed. With both extract and partial mashes only part of the ME needs to be boiled, the rest goes into the FV as for a kit. In theory adding water to ME to make up a wort should return the malt liquor to its original form before it was processed into ME, so it should be exactly the same as liquor from a mash, but I'll bet it wont be, take dried and evaporated milk as examples. However you can make some really good beers by both methods as I do (well I've got to say that haven't I )

 

[Sandimas]

I used to do extract brewing, and I still use DME for partial mashes.
When I used LME, especially in quantity I could sometimes get the homebrew twang. I have never had that with DME.

Exactly the same here, I always go for DME.

There was a lot of debate on here a few years ago about LME vs DME and the conclusion was, whilst you can get LMEs that are OK, most of us had experienced bad brews with LME whereas we'd had none with DME. I'm not going to name them, but there was one supplier who had "no-name" DME as part of their kits and it was horrible stuff, produced a real tangy beer. Other home brewers bought this LME as it was cheap and made full Extract brews and experienced the same. I had two kits from them, one was the no-name LME and the other was MJ LME it was like chalk and cheese. Thye eventually switched over to the no-name LME to remain competitive on price and that's when I moved over to 100% DME. Brews I did with Coopers LME always seem to be fine but that was expensive.

 

[phildo79]

Pound for pound, DME is slightly cheaper, in my experience. It also produces a higher OG using less extract. You can also easily measure out exactly what you need, as supposed to LME. DME doesn't scorch when you add it to the boil, like what can happen with LME.

When I first started out, I used LME. But now I only ever use DME.

 

[Elliott75]

SWMBO complains bitterly of the smell if I boil up the wort on the kitchen stove - so please "Beware"!

I know this one!!!

 

[terrym]

DME doesn't scorch when you add it to the boil, like what can happen with LME.

That is remedied by taking your pot of the heat and stirring in the ME whatever sort it is then when its fully dissolved returning it to the heat.

 

[phildo79]

Yeah, I know. It's just an extra faff that I'd rather do without.

 

[micklupulo]

I wonder if anyone can help with this query please. I am thinking of digging out my 30 year old Electrim bin later this year and doing an AG brew but see that the products have changed massively since I last used it. Eg Supa Flavex and cans of DMS are no more. I sometimes used to use just DME plus sugar and crystal malt etc.but am puzzled that at my LHBS the price of DME seems vastly higher than LME. 500g of light DME £4.95 whereas 1.2kg of MJ light LME £5.95. I will pay whatever I need to in order to produce a decent brew but do wonder why LME seems so much cheaper and if it has disadvantages. I note that some on here say it is more likely to create the dreaded twang.

 

[dad_of_jon]

dme all the way for me but will use lme as part of a premium kit... eg brewfferm

 

[terrym]

@micklupulo
If you intend to use significant quantities of DME try these people who I use.
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/ingredientsadditivessteriliser-spray-malts-c-3_36.htmlEven a 3kg bag with the £7.95 delivery charge is cheaper than your LHBS. And there used to be a 5% forum discount but not sure if this still applies.
Even so you wouldn't just buy one bag of DME would you?
You would top up your store with hops, grain etc to justify the delivery charge.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I made a few 10L brews with the MJ 1.2g LME and apart from a stout recipe they all had a twang. But a few years back I used to use Coopers 1.5kg LME and never had that problem.

 

[micklupulo]

@micklupulo
If you intend to use significant quantities of DME try these people who I use.
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/ingredientsadditivessteriliser-spray-malts-c-3_36.htmlEven a 3kg bag with the £7.95 delivery charge is cheaper than your LHBS. And there used to be a 5% forum discount but not sure if this still applies.
Even so you wouldn't just buy one bag of DME would you?
You would top up your store with hops, grain etc to justify the delivery charge.

Thanks and will bear them in mind. Problem is I don't do enough at present to justify bulk buying of anything so will either buy locally once to see how it goes or redeploy the Electrim bin to refine kits with hop boils etc.which will guarantee I won't scrape the ceramic top cooker and keep out of trouble!