Excessive bottle carbonation - what am I doing wrong?

[RichardMW]

Brewed 25 March. Bottled 8 April

 

[RichardMW]

So I have a late breaking and intriguing development!

Father-in-law has just messaged to say that he's opened a bottle from the same batch that I gave him yesterday. No gas at all in that one. But he also agrees that it tastes great.
So maybe some bottles got infected and some didn't?
My current best guess is that I didn't stir the priming sugar syrup well enough into the FV and so some bottles may have been overcharged and others not enough.
More drinking and more brewing required!

 

[RichardMW]

Hi Rich thanks for answering the questions all seems well there as I suspected the only thing is when you say you fill just past the shoulder of the bottle do that mean that you have over a inch of space at the top as that is what most brewers would advise to do just enough for expansion as it gases up but minimise the oxygen in the bottle however that would not cause the gushing.
I am going back to my thoughts on the infection as some infections do not always make the beer taste bad but will ferment some of the other type of sugars in the beer and create over carbing.
It looks like a few other brewers are having the same conclusion

Cheers Baron.
Different batch (the first of this recipe) but this is how full I full them. They're standard 500ml bottles. Does this look right?

 

[The Baron]

Hi Rich no you need to fill them and leave about a inch off the top of the bottle too much of a gap and there is a possibility of getting oxidation of the beer.
Just what you said that you may not of mixed in the sugar and some bottles have too much and some none makes sense so it may not be a infection after all

 

[RichardMW]

Hi Rich no you need to fill them and leave about a inch off the top of the bottle too much of a gap and there is a possibility of getting oxidation of the beer.
Just what you said that you may not of mixed in the sugar and some bottles have too much and some none makes sense so it may not be a infection after all

Yes, I think that I was worried that I would be breaking up the trub and also oxygenate the beer if I stirred the syrup in too much, so next time I bottle I'll rack into a bottling bucket before adding my sugar to it then stir properly. Like I say though, my next batch Gypsy Ale - Pig Den Brewing is destined for the mini keg so that'll go straight in from the FV. I find all this constant racking from one FV to a secondary FV and then into a bottling bucket a bit of a faff!

 

[Richard_H]

I might be being picky here but for me personally that bottle looks like it hasn't been filled enough as that looks like several inches of 'space'. The reason I say that is I was under the impression that underfilling a bottle can create too much CO2 which may explain the issue here. For reference this is roughly what I expect to be the ideal level:

 

[Tommo 2]

I might be being picky here but for me personally that bottle looks like it hasn't been filled enough as that looks like several inches of 'space'. The reason I say that is I was under the impression that underfilling a bottle can create too much CO2 which may explain the issue here. For reference this is roughly what I expect to be the ideal level:
View attachment 45946

If you purchase a little bottler that you connect to the tap on your bottling bucket it always leaves the perfect headspace in your bottle

 

[RichardMW]

If you purchase a little bottler that you connect to the tap on your bottling bucket it always leaves the perfect headspace in your bottle

Thanks. I don't use a tap, just a siphon tube stuck in the top. Presumably these little bottler things work with a siphon tube?

 

[Poddyc]

@RichardMW re question 2 in OP...

I've been looking into repurposing an Adnams Ghost Ship 5L minikeg for my next batch, and some of the various youtube videos I've found showing how to do this

Had considered the same with repurposed minikegs, but decided against, following the balance of advice on this forum.

Didn't feel the marginal convenience over bottling vs. the possibility of 5 litres of precious homebrew spoilt with metallic taint, was worth the risk.

If you've not already reviewed other members' experience, then there's link to key thread here...

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/brewferm-mini-kegs.92385/#post-1002195

 

[Poddyc]

BTW was finally swayed on metallic issue when, as an experiment, I tasted some tap water left for few days in my cleaned and prepped minikegs vs. tap water left in a glass for same period of time.

Minikeg samples were distinctly different. Very much how I imagine it would be like licking an old school style galvanised tin dustbin!

 

[RichardMW]

Thanks again for your advice everyone.
One thing I've learned about homebrew so far is that everyone's experience is different, I'm going to give the mini kegs a go for myself, but go easy on the priming sugar.
At least then it'll give you the opportunity to say "we told you so!"

Has to be said, this forum and the people on it are brilliant. I've even found someone else who licks galvanised bin lids like I do!

 

[bobukbrewer]

next brew - 5 bottles no sugar - 5 bottles 1 gm sugar - the rest 2 gm. Leave at warm room temperature 7 days than store at 12 to 15 deg C. A practical experiment that will tell you lots !

 

[Poddyc]

@RichardMW my galvanised bin lid licking habit is under control! Exercised rarely, and now only when low on stocks of 'extreme' NEIPA.

Let us know how you get on with minikegs.

 

[chillipickle]

You can attach them to tubing or on a tap.As tommo said they leave perfect head space in the bottle.

https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Brewferm-Bottle-Filler.html

 

[Bill_g]

... . I find all this constant racking from one FV to a secondary FV and then into a bottling bucket a bit of a faff!
[/QUOTE]
mmm ... 'a bit of a faf' sums up brewing really. If you don't get to enjoy the 'faf' and take to cutting corners then you are going to be in trouble. Not trying to be unpleasant or a smart arse, it's just that good process and details make a big difference.
I too have had problems with some brews and some bottles. Currently I prime at only 2.7g sugar per litre and give my bottles an extremely good clean which is giving better results. Mostly I use cornies so only bottle the excess from a 25 litre batch. Also I dissolve the priming sugar in a small amount of water, boil in the microwave for a couple of minutes then stir this into the racked off beer in a plastic bucket. I use a bottle filling tube with a valve on the end which automatically sets bottle fill level & makes the job a lot easier.

 

[Scottyburto]

This method is a little bit faffy but the most consistent carbonation for bottles.

For a 20l batch
Put a jug on a scale and zero.
Weigh sugar eg 5g x 20l = 100g
Add boiling water UP TO 200ml INCLUDING the volume of the sugar.
Stir and you end up with 200ml of sugar solution.
5ml of sugar solution per 500ml bottle is the same as 2.5g of sugar per 500ml
As long as you top up to 200ml you will have 40 x 5ml doses.
Increase or decrease the amount of sugar to your carbonation preference. Eg 3/4tsp per bottle would be 7.5g x 20l = 150g.
Still top UP TO 200ml.

Use a "CalPol" syringe and put 5ml in each bottle before filling.

For a darker ale I would use less sugar but the method is still the same and 20l is an easy calculation to scale up or down.

 

[RichardMW]

mmm ... 'a bit of a faf' sums up brewing really. If you don't get to enjoy the 'faf' and take to cutting corners then you are going to be in trouble. Not trying to be unpleasant or a smart ****, it's just that good process and details make a big difference.

I totally get what you are saying Bill. I was perhaps a bit dismissive. But it does seem to me that there are a multitude of various processes and bits of kit that some regard as essential/indispensable, that really aren't at all.
Hence my comment about primary and secondary FVs and an additional bottling bucket. I'm willing (welcome actually) to be educated about this sort of thing but are two different FVs really necessary? And the transfer into a bottling bucket as well? I guess it all depends what you are after in terms of results and the kit and time you have available.

To give another example, it used to be that the process was:

1. Mash in one vessel
2. Sparge using water from another vessel
3. Boil in a third vessel

That's three vessels. I've only got as far as doing BIAB at the moment using a 10L IKEA stockpot. It's not going to be getting me microbrewery quality or quantity anytime soon but it's a valid setup nonetheless right?

 

[HopHead420]

Your issue is almost certainly that the sugar for bottling wasn't uniformly mixed in, so some bottles will have far too much sugar, and some not enough. I'd be very careful around the bottles you have, could be lethal.

In future I highly recommend you make a sugar syrup, and pipette a measured amount into each bottle before filling with the beer. Mixing the sugar into the beer before bottling will always give you inconsistent results unless you really mix well, and if you really mix well then you're introducing a load of oxygenation and spoilage to your beer before it ever hits your lips.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I use the @Scottyburto method as it's consistent and works when I bottle condition.
Have to admit have now moved onto counter pressure bottling most of the time and that removes the mystery. But still use the liquid sugar and syringe if it's a big beer to " mature " in the bottle.

 

[paintingken]

Thanks again for your advice everyone.
One thing I've learned about homebrew so far is that everyone's experience is different, I'm going to give the mini kegs a go for myself, but go easy on the priming sugar.
At least then it'll give you the opportunity to say "we told you so!"

Has to be said, this forum and the people on it are brilliant. I've even found someone else who licks galvanised bin lids like I do!

Yep, you will pretty much be advised 3 different ways to do one thing each of which is possibly both right and wrong.
I guess everyone has their own way of doing their thing but you are in the right place for invaluable advise.