Electric cool box as a FV?

[nigelnorris]

Dunno about this idea but...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=electric+cool+box

Airtight sealed, cools way down below normal fermentation temps. Mains operated via an adapter so hook it up to an inkbird and away I go, maybe bung a fishtank heater in for the winter. As cheap as a fridge but fits into the same space as regular 30L FV. Buy the right one might even do for lagering?

It must be a flawed idea else I'd have already read about it, what's the dealbreaker I haven't spotted?

 

[nigelnorris]

Oh I see, looks like they have fans and stuff in there. I thought they were sealed like regular coolboxes with stuff going on in the lining. Or perhaps not in all cases?

 

[nigelnorris]

Total noob error, had I searched I'd have found the thread with the exact same title from 3 years ago.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I take it its a non starter.

 

[nigelnorris]

I take it its a non starter.

Well actually I'm not sure. The arguments against in the other thread seem to be noise and lack of airtightness. But I don't care about the noise and at least one that I've looked at is gasket sealed and airtight, so perhaps things are different three years later.

Other arguments I've found while googling around are that the boxes might not actually cool, but just maintain a temperature, which doesn't sound adequate. And there's a halford's ad that says never ever put liquids directly into one.

I'm going to go and physically look at one and make my own mind up I think. Or to be precise get Amazon to send me one and then send it back if it's no good.

My interest is defintely piqued though.

 

[nigelnorris]

I think this is the main issue, spillage and condensation and what have you clagging up the fan.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It will be interesting to find out if it will work.

 

[Dutto]

I checked out dozens of electric cool-boxes and only found this where the cooling didn't involve a fan on the inside of the lid ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FMUTAKS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

... and it's tiny!

The reason all of the larger designs have fans in the lid is the way in which they operate which is:

"In 1834 French physicist Jean-Charles-Athanase Peltier discovered that when two copper wires
are attached to a battery and joined by a length of bismuth wire, a temperature drop occurs
at the junction where current passes from bismuth to copper
and a temperature increase occurs where the current passes from copper to bismuth.

Modern thermoelectric units take advantage of this effect by bonding two plates of dissimilar
semiconductors (commonly bismuth and telluride) to create a heat pump. One side of the unit
will be heated by the Peltier effect, the other side will be cooled. Which side is cooled depends
on the direction of the current. By placing aluminum fins on the unit to aid in distribution of
the heat or cold produced and channeling the air into the insulated box, the storage temperature
can be raised or lowered by 18 to 20 degrees C from ambient."​

In other words it would possibly get the temperature to where you wanted it but you would always have the problem of a fan being on the inside of the cool-box; so I personally wouldn't ever attempt to use one as a FV.

 

[nigelnorris]

In other words it would possibly get the temperature to where you wanted it but you would always have the problem of a fan being on the inside of the cool-box; so I personally wouldn't ever attempt to use one as a FV.

I get that, but if the unit is sealed and the fan is just for circulating the air inside the box then I can't see what difference it makes?

 

[Dutto]

I get that, but if the unit is sealed and the fan is just for circulating the air inside the box then I can't see what difference it makes?

Simple:

A) The fan and internal gubbins will be impossible to sterilise and a constant source of infection.

B) You never know how high the krausen will get and most fans don't like running with wet dead yeast cells swirling around inside them.

C) The CO2 coming off the wort as it ferments will carry condensation up into the fan and when it drips back into the wort it will be carrying the products of A) and B) above back into the wort.

Hope this helps. :thumb:

 

[nigelnorris]

Simple:

A) The fan and internal gubbins will be impossible to sterilise and a constant source of infection.

B) You never know how high the krausen will get and most fans don't like running with wet dead yeast cells swirling around inside them.

C) The CO2 coming off the wort as it ferments will carry condensation up into the fan and when it drips back into the wort it will be carrying the products of A) and B) above back into the wort.

Hope this helps. :thumb:

The definitive answer, nice one Dutto.

One more question though. Is the fan even necessary? Looks to me like it's just to push air around packages of food, would the box work if it were just blanked off?

 

[Dutto]

The definitive answer, nice one Dutto.

One more question though. Is the fan even necessary? Looks to me like it's just to push air around packages of food, would the box work if it were just blanked off?

The electrical gizmo that does the cooling is contained within a set of aluminium fins. When cooling the fan takes cool air from the cool-box and then blows it across the fins and back into the cool-box.

Relying on the "cold air falls" principle it would take forever to cool anything inside the cool-box; especially what would be a relatively large body of liquid with a nice thick insulating layer of krausen sat on top! :thumb:

 

[ajt24]

I have that coolbox which i use as a fridge when camping, the thing i would say is after a few days cooling our food I found it produces water in the the box, whether or not this would infect your brew is anyone guess, just thought I would add that if it helps at all

 

[Dutto]

That sounds a bit like the scare stories that followed the discovery of AIDS in the 1980's.

Bloke went to see his doctor with a drip and the doctor said "I've seen a lot of this since the AIDS scare!" The guy nearly fainted but the doctor carried on "It's called condomsation." :whistle: :whistle:

 

[Brett74]

Just an idea here but why not build an insulated box out of PU insulation or something, put your normal FV in there and use the lid of the electric coolbox with the fan/cooling unit in it as a lid, there is your cooling and your FV keep your wort safe ?

 

[Bridgewater Brewer]

Like the previous post I'd worry about the lack of smoothness making it difficult to sanitise, too many places for nasties to hide.

 

[Ale]

I have one of these (not for homebrewing) and the box is sealed but the lid isn't. Its basically a fan with a heater and cooler (dont know what the exact mechanics are) and it blows cool or hot air into the base unit. i certaily wouldnt use it for home brew.

 

[Fil]

if its the size n shape of a coldbox that appeals then you can chill one with a shelf chiller via a hex coil submerged in the brew easily enough. But the best solution is a 2nd hand or freecycled fridge..

sitting the FV in a waterbath which you can chill with exchanging frozen bottles of water is the low budget option but does involve daily input.