Electric cars.

[foxy]

I see absolutely no point in hybrids. They are getting very expensive - for obvious reasons* - and really if you need hybrid, a petrol or diesel will fit the use case and if not a BEV will.

*The obvious reasons being that they have to have an ICE and a battery and motor and all the gubbins to make them work together. They are the vehicle equivalent of comfort braking (you'll recognise this phenomenon when driving behind a car that brakes often but doesn't actually slow down) - hybrids give people the false comfort of doing something for the environment when actually doing nothing.

Well, as I said in 10 years there could be something completely different as Toyota likes to keep hinting. Australia is about 35 times larger than the UK so a switch to EV's wouldn't be viable. I would like to think there is something better though I change my car every three years I would hate to be losing too much on them. 5 years and you could almost write them off.

 

[foxy]

You can buy plug in EV's but they only average around 50 miles range if you don't have home charging owning one would be a pita.

Well Toyota reckon they are close to a battery with a range of 750k and a 10 minute charge. It is still going to be a big pull on the grid all electric vehicles.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

well my BEV is doing 5 times that in the cold spell and 6 timers that in the warmer season and it gets used daily only vehicle and driven as normal.

not sure where you base the 50 mile on?

We were discussing Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs)

 

[Larse]

Well Toyota reckon they are close to a battery with a range of 750k and a 10 minute charge. It is still going to be a big pull on the grid all electric vehicles.

Well there's an Australian company developing a new battery based on aluminium and graphene. Ridiculously fast charge times and cycles. But still at the very early stage. I think they've got to a 1Ah pouch cell this year. Obviously could be very cheap once they figure out how to mass produce graphene.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Well Toyota reckon they are close to a battery with a range of 750k and a 10 minute charge. It is still going to be a big pull on the grid all electric vehicles.

That’s charging at something like 700kW!

 

[Larse]

That’s charging at something like 700kW!

Have you not seen this?

 

[foxy]

That’s charging at something like 700kW!

Not 750 k but 745 miles! With a longer battery life expectancy. There is no way I would be hurrying to get an EV at the present time. Technology is moving far too fast.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyo...ll be rolling out,“very good” life expectancy.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Have you not seen this?

That’s only half the power, with a bunch of people monitoring it, one of whom says “it wasn’t easy to find a cable that could handle this current”.

I’m sure we’ll get there, but I think it’ll be a few years.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Not 750 k but 745 miles! With a longer battery life expectancy. There is no way I would be hurrying to get an EV at the present time. Technology is moving far too fast.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyota-solid-state-ev-battery-plans-750-mi-range/#:~:text=“We will be rolling out,“very good” life expectancy.

Toyota have been “2 years away” on this technology for a long time. Here’s an article from 2019: https://www.carsuk.net/toyota-to-reveal-solid-state-batteries-in-2020-as-ev-move-gathers-pace/

Again, I believe it will happen, but it’s a little further off than that.

It does however show that power network operators need to start planning for delivering multi megawatt power supplies to service stations.

 

[Larse]

That’s only half the power, with a bunch of people monitoring it, one of whom says “it wasn’t easy to find a cable that could handle this current”.

I’m sure we’ll get there, but I think it’ll be a few years.

I wouldn't think the cable is an issue. There wouldn't be a readily available supply of them, but clearly at least one was. I think Tesla SUCs have liquid cooled ones that are capable of that current.

I think that was a 100kWh battery. It's just interesting to see that there are different approaches with current technology to speed up charging.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Again, I believe it will happen, but it’s a little further off than that.

Chinese are already there, the Zeekr 007 has been on sale since August and claims 10-80% charging (ie 300 miles) in 10.5 minutes.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rge-zeekr-claims-10-80-charge-in-10-5-minutes

 

[stripeyjoe]

Hybrids are expensive and pointless.

I bought an 08 plate Prius around 9 years ago for £5k, still going strong with around 130k miles on the clock. The only major expenses have been wear and tear items such as the exhaust, a wheel bearing and brake discs.
I get 50-60 mpg in town, pay minimal VED, no ULEZ and cheap(ish) insurance in a car big enough to fetch a free tall larder fridge once in a while.
And it has a reversing camera which is dead useful around where I live as parking is a nightmare.
We’ll keep this car until it’s no longer economical to repair (or, more likely, it’s gets crashed into by a boy racer when parked up) and then probably buy another.
So, not expensive and not pointless.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Not 750 k but 745 miles! With a longer battery life expectancy. There is no way I would be hurrying to get an EV at the present time. Technology is moving far too fast.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyota-solid-state-ev-battery-plans-750-mi-range/#:~:text=“We will be rolling out,“very good” life expectancy.

Good point I would not buy one outright either hence why i took it out on pcp and hand it back for a next one end of term

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I get 50-60 mpg in town, pay minimal VED, no ULEZ and cheap(ish) insurance in a car big enough to fetch a free tall larder fridge once in a while.
And it has a reversing camera which is dead useful around where I live as parking is a nightmare.
We’ll keep this car until it’s no longer economical to repair (or, more likely, it’s gets crashed into by a boy racer when parked up) and then probably buy another.
So, not expensive and not pointless.

 

[Larse]

I bought an 08 plate Prius around 9 years ago for £5k, still going strong with around 130k miles on the clock. The only major expenses have been wear and tear items such as the exhaust, a wheel bearing and brake discs.
I get 50-60 mpg in town, pay minimal VED, no ULEZ and cheap(ish) insurance in a car big enough to fetch a free tall larder fridge once in a while.
And it has a reversing camera which is dead useful around where I live as parking is a nightmare.
We’ll keep this car until it’s no longer economical to repair (or, more likely, it’s gets crashed into by a boy racer when parked up) and then probably buy another.
So, not expensive and not pointless.

I'm talking about new, not used. Apples and oranges.

Same car new right now is north of £37k. You don't think that's expensive?

 

[old dog new tricks]

See Ford Launched the new Puma Gen E, hardly cheap at £30k but not silly power and no heavier than the ICE version (1500kg) this seems like a positive step apart form the cost.

Of more significance as the announcement that Halewood will now be the manufacturing plant for the EV motor drive unit for all Ford European EVs, securing the 700 jobs at the plant for the medium future.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

See Ford Launched the new Puma Gen E, hardly cheap at £30k but not silly power and no heavier than the ICE version (1500kg) this seems like a positive step apart form the cost.

I checked a few days ago and the average price for an BEV is £46,000 so its not too bad being a usable size family car.

 

[Nicks90]

I'm talking about new, not used. Apples and oranges.

Same car new right now is north of £37k. You don't think that's expensive?

I checked a few days ago and the average price for an BEV is £46,000 so its not too bad being a usable size family car.

We're looking at this wrong though. A new ford escort in 1995 was £10k, that's £26k in today's money.
Now look at the tech difference on what you get. Explains the big price jump.

But also with the exception of a small minority, in 2023 84.3% of new car 'purchases' were done on some form of finance/lease/salary sacrifice/company car scheme.
And the purchase price has very little to do with how expensive those deals are. A £50k car with minimal depreciation can cost less than a £30k car that plummets like a stone.
So the prius over 3 or 5 years could well be cheaper than many other cheaper cars, because they depreciate so slowly.

Obvs if you are one of those 16% that 'buy' their car, this isn't ideal. But it's the way the market it.
My Tesla at £45,600 was cheaper than a £36,000 petrol golf over 4 years. Add on the lack of bik and fuel costs, it was massively cheaper (figures accurate at time of contract April 23)

 

[foxy]

The rapidly improving technology for battery charging and storage and reading the lithium-sulfur battery can be applied to solar batteries for the home is promising. State governments subsidise batteries to the tune of 50% so now I may wait a year or two before I take the plunge. Then again there could be further improvements in that time frame.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I'm talking about new, not used. Apples and oranges.

Same car new right now is north of £37k. You don't think that's expensive?

Why on earth would you buy a new car? That really is pointless, you would lose around £7k just driving it home!