Electric cars.

[old dog new tricks]

Sounds plausible. So your 15,000miles/year is 4,213kWh, which at 9p/kWh is £379 not £1349. So that gets you into the roughly £100/month saving area that you were looking for.

And if you are going to start adding in what the tax might be in 2025 then you can use electricity prices from a new contract, like the 7.5p Octopus one I mentioned, or Ovo's 7p plan which would save you another £84/year.

Plus of course if you were just comparing EV vs fossil like for like, any new-to-you diesel car would be paying at least £190 road tax.

I edited the post once i rechecked all the figures as below some serious savings to be had.

As for the fossil comment that is a bit harsh its fully LEZ complaint low emission diesel, not quite a fossil and having had the pleasure of a few contry roads last few days still drives very nicely and huge fun, big part of why i bought it.

I apologised for the gross error in my figures not sure what happened the revised figures should be correct.



Well I have done some digging and researched this properly now

Current car based on 55mpg(real world mpg) @155p for diesel(current average price in my area) covering 15k per year.
Running Costs per year
Fuel £1921
Tax £0



Looked for affordable EV that was a hatchback, could carry 4 had at least 200 mile range. Only one that came near Hyundai Kona EV 64kw.
Manufacturer/Official figures
Home only charging @9p per KWh
Energy £337.50
70/30 Home and Public Charging, assumption 50p per KWh (based on local authority public chargers in my area)
Energy £798.75

Real World figures from Electric Vehicle Database
Home Charging @9p per KWh
Energy £360
70/30 Home and Public @50p per KWh
Energy £852

Tax (from 2025) £190
Insurance + £100 (average increase on this model)

Total saving per year running cost excluding PCP
Tax +£190
Insurance +£100

Home Only Charging Official Figures
Total saving per year = £1293.50

70/30 Home / Public Official Figures
Total saving per year £832.50

Home Only Real World Figures
Total saving per year £1271

70/30 Home/Public Real World Figures
Total saving per year £779

Other Costs - Home Charger £600+

This totally changes how I look at EVs now.

Only problem is actually finding a used EV as they sell as soon as they arrive and new is just too expensive.

Auto Car had a good article on the VW ID3 should be a great car, but plagued with tech glitches and tested price is over £50k for what is meant to be a mainstream replacement for the Golf size car.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Factor in the difference in servicing cost

The Toyota hybrids are brilliant owners are reporting huge MPG figures in the forums -

I am considering a Toyota hybrid next so have done plenty of research but i haven't looked at the PHEV as i have nowhere to plug it in at home, a PHEV may be best for you.

I do fast a road and some motorway driving not that much town thankfully that why diesel has been so good for me as at its best with constant speeds

 

[Chippy_Tea]

i haven't looked at the PHEV as i have nowhere to plug it in at home, a PHEV may be best for you.

Review 3 weeks ago -

 

[Rodcx500z]

Does anybody honestly think these 7p tariffs will still be around when everybody is driving ev's that's not how governments work, you will be paying exactly the same as you are now, you my as well just keep driving an ice as long as possible

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Does anybody honestly think these 7p tariffs will still be around when everybody is driving ev's that's not how governments work, you will be paying exactly the same as you are now, you my as well just keep driving an ice as long as possible

And change to an EV only when the cheap tariffs have gone? Surely best to make use of these while you can.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

you my as well just keep driving an ice as long as possible

They will put the price of petrol/diesel up to make running an ICE car uneconomical to encourage us to move to EV

I dont have the figures but Ignoring 7p tariffs even at normal tariffs EV is still much cheaper to run than ICE.

 

[Nicks90]

As I showed on my recent euro trip, even using commercial chargers, it still worked out as over 90mpg in a petrol car on cost alone.

 

[MashBag]

I am hoping toyota will have a hybrid 4x4/pick-up by the time I need to replace. They do seem to be 'gently' behind the curve.

Hybrid Genedier anyone?

 

[Rodcx500z]

They will put the price of petrol/diesel up to make running an ICE car uneconomical to encourage us to move to EV

I dont have the figures but Ignoring 7p tariffs even at normal tariffs EV is still much cheaper to run than ICE.

Only until everybody has one, then it's back to normal service

 

[Rodcx500z]

And change to an EV only when the cheap tariffs have gone? Surely best to make use of these while you can.

I am looking long term, early adopters are speeding things up

 

[old dog new tricks]

Well if we adopt solar and battery installation we can protect against the inevitable rise is energy prices BUT as Scottish government have now outlawed gas or any non renewable for all new builds I don't think they can force electricity up when the is no option that will lead to anarchy not that long ago businesses were using ancient diesel generators as it was cheaper than business energy rates but the pollution was horrendous.
The government have already set about removing all tax breaks for EVs so not sure they will so short sighted to drive up energy prices but never say never. On plus side might force independence as Scotland has an abundance of wind turbine energy more than we can use at times.
If I win the lottery it's solar panels and big battery, high temp heat pump and am EV just need about £60k haha

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As for the fossil comment that is a bit harsh its fully LEZ complaint low emission diesel, not quite a fossil

I meant "fossil" as in fossil fuel, I was talking about the comparison between fossil fuel and electric...

Only problem is actually finding a used EV as they sell as soon as they arrive

So much for worrying about the high depreciation because nobody wants to buy second-hand EVs!!

I think the depreciation is going to ease off, partly for this reason, that the kind of EVs now coming off 3-year leases are now "good enough" as ICE alternatives so there is a demand for them that wasn't there for 3-year old gen1 Leafs. And also some of the depreciation has been driven due to company-specific factors at Tesla, who cut prices dramatically as they lost their effective monopoly on decent EVs, but in recent weeks they've not only stopped that but even started tweaking them up again a little bit. And I think a bit of it is people realising that fears about eg battery life have been overhyped so they are more confident about buying one.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Yes the lease market is starting to release the first of the ID3 and the Hyundai and Kia that have really good range, MG have enjoyed amazing residuals with their EVs and hats off to them they under cut the big players and msde some decent EVs.
The depreciation is happening in the mega price stuff jags and porkers etc they are tumbling if the iPace slipped a bit further I'd jump at one!
I agree despite the government pushing diesel on us for decades and it's been damn good for me tbh they will tax it out the game in the near future.
My only question is do I wait and see if EVs become affordable in the next year or take the gamble when my current deal is up

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Does anybody honestly think these 7p tariffs will still be around when everybody is driving ev's that's not how governments work, you will be paying exactly the same as you are now, you my as well just keep driving an ice as long as possible

Do you think those 150p/litre fossil fuels will still be around? Beer in a pub is about 7x dearer than petrol....

What matters is not the absolute price, but the price relative to fossil fuels. And as it happens, the big discussion at the moment is about removing all the green tariffs off electricity and moving them onto fossil fuels, as electricity is so much further down the road of decarbonisation - the UK grid briefly touched 19g CO2/kWh earlier this week (for comparison, generating with gas produces about 500g/kWh and coal is almost twice as much as gas). So "government" really want to push people to replace fossil fuels with electricity - for cars the real hit is going to become congestion charging not electricity taxes.

And the electricity companies really want to encourage people to consume electricity at night, so again they are keen to encourage EV charging.

 

[jof]

Ok, I see fuel cost savings.
but what hasn't come out so far is insurance cost and maintainence costs.
I don't think maintainence costs will be clear for at least another 5 years as we start to see independent mechanics that are able to fix electric cars

After all, even with ice cars,once your PCP contract is up, the main dealer doesn't want to know. (At least that's the way of things where I live)

Disclosure, I buy a car and keep it going until it's uneconomical to repair. An old fashion view these days, but I suspect there are quite a lot of us with this mindset. We run 2 older diesels, & would happily replace one with electric when it dies, but not ready to commit to all electric on both just yet.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Well if they are that keen why are they removing all the incentives that were available for EV.
The scandal that is public charging costs needs investigating especially the ones that offer reduced tariffs for certain brands if they can sell it at the reduced rate for some then why not all?

The tax breaks and grants for EVs are being wound up as they now believe legislation will force the issue.

I wish I had changed a few years ago now tbh

 

[old dog new tricks]

Ok, I see fuel cost savings.
but what hasn't come out so far is insurance cost and maintainence costs.
I don't think maintainence costs will be clear for at least another 5 years as we start to see independent mechanics that are able to fix electric cars

After all, even with ice cars,once your PCP contract is up, the main dealer doesn't want to know. (At least that's the way of things where I live)

Disclosure, I buy a car and keep it going until it's uneconomical to repair. An old fashion view these days, but I suspect there are quite a lot of us with this mindset. We run 2 older diesels, & would happily replace one with electric when it dies, but not ready to commit to all electric on both just yet.

I used to do the same ran my past cars until they were costing more to repair than worth. Went out to buy my last car and the PCP deal just made sense as it was LEZ compliant and tax free. Truss and her mayhem have made PCP twice as expensive grrr. I was just going to replace like for life but it will cost me double hence why exploring ev or other options now

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The scandal that is public charging costs needs investigating

The problem for these companies is the cost to install the chargers is huge and with so few depending on them its going to take a long time for them to get their money back remember only 30% of us dont have off street parking so at the moment the majority of EV buyers will are charging at home they need to charge a lot to recoup the money they have invested it'll be interesting to see if the prices drop as EV's become the norm.

 

[old dog new tricks]

In Scotland a huge number were installed by the local authorities ie council they were free up until last year now the council see them as a cash cow they were paid for years ago with government funding it's just profiteering.
I agree companies should be allowed to recoup their costs but with in reason it needs to be regulated if domestic energy was tested this way there would rightly be public outrage.
I would accept this if there were numerous large multi chargers everywhere but in my area it's the odd charger in obscure locations that make no sense.
The infrastructure is a mess hence why I will not commit unless I can find an EV with enough range to charge at home.
I know some areas may be well served but I can't say that even the halo that is Tesla have next to sod all in the greater Glasgow area.
If 7p tariffs are available then it makes the 90p public tariff a joke.
This is the kind of things stopping the wider adoption of EVs and feeds the project fear media that seem to dislike EVs in the main

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ok, I see fuel cost savings.
but what hasn't come out so far is insurance cost and maintainence costs.
I don't think maintainence costs will be clear for at least another 5 years as we start to see independent mechanics that are able to fix electric cars

Insurance tends to be in line with the "quick" versions of the equivalent ICE car but less than the daft ones - for instance the Electric Mini is insurance groups 20-26, which is the same as the Cooper (20) and Cooper S (26) but less than the JCW (27-30). The electric Fiat 500 is 15-17, whereas the ICE versions top out at 15 for the 95/105bhp versions and the old Abarth version was 26-27. So that may be a bit of a shock if you don't normally drive a quick car.

Teslas are another story though, as Thatcham don't rate their app-based security and a few other things so put even the Model 3 at groups 48-50.

In principle maintenance should be quite a bit less as there's just less to go wrong, less need for medium-term maintenance like oil filters and fan belts and all that malarkey, and they don't have the things that tend to go wrong at 80k+ like clutches and gearboxes and head gaskets. They say an ICE car has 2000 moving parts compared to 20 for an EV, I don't know if that's true.

Well if they are that keen why are they removing all the incentives that were available for EV.

As you've found, EVs can stand on their own two feet now, which means the finite pot of subsidies can be concentrated on markets that are less mature, notably heat pumps.