Electric cars.

[Chippy_Tea]

Good shout chippy

I was close (but no cigar)

So its not illegal to run out but if running out causes a problem for others you could/will be in big trouble.

Whilst running out of fuel isn’t illegal in itself, under current legislation, drivers can be fined a minimum of £100 and three penalty points if their car obstructs the road as a result of an avoidable breakdown, or if running out of fuel is deemed to result in careless or dangerous driving. If a vehicle causing an obstruction is found to be at fault for a collision, the penalty can be more serious.

 

[Nicks90]

On the subject of costs, I've just done a tally up of the charging costs for our trip the other week to Belgium and France

Leeds to Dover ferry port over to Dunkirk, to Bruges for a couple of days, then Ypres for another 2 days. After that a trip over to Paris via theipval and then home via calais ferry.

1050 mile round trip and absolutely no issues with charging anywhere. Managed to time all but one charging stop with either lunch or dinner on all our various trips and always used Tesla super chargers.
Total cost for the trip at chargers was £74.52 (using current euro exchange rate), giving the equivalent of 94mpg in petrol. Not bad considering that's all public charging

My only complaint being that Dover REALLY needs some charging facilities, it's bonkers there isn't a row of Tesla SCs and ionity chargers just outside the ferry port. Because of that we had to make an extra stop near Amiens to ensure we had enough to get to Medway.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My only complaint being that Dover REALLY needs some charging facilities, it's bonkers there isn't a row of Tesla SCs and ionity chargers just outside the ferry port. Because of that we had to make an extra stop near Amiens to ensure we had enough to get to Medway.

There's a Tesla station at the tunnel terminal, but the ferry people really want to get you on your way, they don't like people hanging around.

There are chargers in Dover, like at the BP station opposite the cruise terminal, just not Tesla ones. A friend who lives in France often stops at the big Ashford Tesco vetweeb M20 J10/10a, mostly to pick up all the stuff that he can't get in France or is dearer/worse there like milk. But it has a 22kW charger which could at least top you up, whichever direction you're going.

 

[old dog new tricks]

That's not an "EVs are expensive" thing though, that's a "anything is more expensive than an old diesel Focus" thing.

Just skimming the AA, there's a 70-plate base-model Tesla 3 with 19k miles on the clock for £22k, PCP £396pm, 0-60 in 5.3s, 238 mile real-world range when new.
And there's a 70-plate Focus 1.5 Tdci with 15k miles on the clock for £20k, PCP £373pm, 0-60 in 9.9s, 54-59mpg, 561 miles per tank.

Assume the new Focus does the same 58mpg as your current one, that's 15.3 miles per litre, so if you are averaging 1,333 miles per month (16k/year) that's 87 litres per month. Average petrol price in Glasgow is currently 140.9p, diesel will be a bit more but we'll pretend it's petrol so you can add diesel costs of £123/month to that PCP cost to make a monthly total of £496/month.

The Tesla does about 4 miles to the kWh, on the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff you can charge overnight for 7.5p/kWh, so your 1,333 miles per month would cost £25 for a total of £421/month.

Last time I looked, £421 was less than £496...

You're out on the cost of a home charger - Checkatrade reckon a Tesla charger costs £499 and average installation is £500 so £999 total - that's about 10 months of the difference between diesel and electricity costs. And in theory since you're only doing 60 miles (15kWh) a day you could trickle charge overnight off a normal mains plug.

And did I mention 0-60 in 5.3s versus 9.9s?

Well I have done some digging and researched this properly now

Current car based on 55mpg(real world mpg) @155p for diesel(current average price in my area) covering 15k per year.
Running Costs per year
Fuel £1921
Tax £0



Looked for affordable EV that was a hatchback, could carry 4 had at least 200 mile range. Only one that came near Hyundai Kona EV 64kw.
Manufacturer/Official figures
Home only charging @9p per KWh
Energy £337.50
70/30 Home and Public Charging, assumption 50p per KWh (based on local authority public chargers in my area)
Energy £798.75

Real World figures from Electric Vehicle Database
Home Charging @9p per KWh
Energy £360
70/30 Home and Public @50p per KWh
Energy £852

Tax (from 2025) £190
Insurance + £100 (average increase on this model)

Total saving per year running cost excluding PCP
Tax +£190
Insurance +£100

Home Only Charging Official Figures
Total saving per year = £1293.50

70/30 Home / Public Official Figures
Total saving per year £832.50

Home Only Real World Figures
Total saving per year £1271

70/30 Home/Public Real World Figures
Total saving per year £779

Other Costs - Home Charger £600+

This totally changes how I look at EVs now.

Only problem is actually finding a used EV as they sell as soon as they arrive and new is just too expensive.

Auto Car had a good article on the VW ID3 should be a great car, but plagued with tech glitches and tested price is over £50k for what is meant to be a mainstream replacement for the Golf size car.

 

[MashBag]

I read that with interest.
I see your working, and interesting they are becoming harder to justify on price alone.

No bashing, just don't fit.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Real World figures from Electric Vehicle Database
Home Charging @9p per KWh
Energy £1349
70/30 Home and Public @50p per KWh
Energy £3194

That looks like you're assuming 1 mile per kWh - in which case your 64kWh Kona would have a range of just 64 miles. Modern cars are getting close to 4 miles/kWh, in which case you 15,000miles translates to 3,750kWh per year which at 9p/kWh is £338.

I think you have to be realistic about the proportion of charging away from home - if you have the ability to do it at home, that's what you will do unless you find yourself doing 160+ miles in a day or stay away more than 80 miles from home, only you know how often that happens. But as I say, I know someone who was doing a lot more miles than you, but it was a consistent 100-120 miles every day and they used a public charger once in 2 years, just to see how it worked.

The other thing is you have to think about the sensitivity to diesel prices - will the oil price go up or down given current events in Russia and the Middle East?

 

[old dog new tricks]

That looks like you're assuming 1 mile per kWh - in which case your 64kWh Kona would have a range of just 64 miles. Modern cars are getting close to 4 miles/kWh, in which case you 15,000miles translates to 3,750kWh per year which at 9p/kWh is £338.

I think you have to be realistic about the proportion of charging away from home - if you have the ability to do it at home, that's what you will do unless you find yourself doing 160+ miles in a day or stay away more than 80 miles from home, only you know how often that happens. But as I say, I know someone who was doing a lot more miles than you, but it was a consistent 100-120 miles every day and they used a public charger once in 2 years, just to see how it worked.

The other thing is you have to think about the sensitivity to diesel prices - will the oil price go up or down given current events in Russia and the Middle East?

I most definitely got the figures wrong hands up I have recalculated

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

That looks like you're assuming 1 mile per kWh - in which case your 64kWh Kona would have a range of just 64 miles. Modern cars are getting close to 4 miles/kWh, in which case you 15,000miles translates to 3,750kWh per year which at 9p/kWh is £338.

I think you have to be realistic about the proportion of charging away from home - if you have the ability to do it at home, that's what you will do unless you find yourself doing 160+ miles in a day or stay away more than 80 miles from home, only you know how often that happens. But as I say, I know someone who was doing a lot more miles than you, but it was a consistent 100-120 miles every day and they used a public charger once in 2 years, just to see how it worked.

The other thing is you have to think about the sensitivity to diesel prices - will the oil price go up or down given current events in Russia and the Middle East?

And another thing to consider is HOW you will be using public chargers.
If you often travel beyond the range of your EV in a single day you will be using expensive rapid chargers but if your one way trip is within range and you need to charge to get home again you can usually use a slower overnight charger and these are far more reasonable.
The only time we usually need to use a public charger is if visiting our daughter in Lincoln. We can arrive on a single charge and then top up in the car park for 34p kwh ready for the journey home.
Round trip from South Essex to Lincoln costs about £25.00

 

[old dog new tricks]

And another thing to consider is HOW you will be using public chargers.
If you often travel beyond the range of your EV in a single day you will be using expensive rapid chargers but if your one way trip is within range and you need to charge to get home again you can usually use a slower overnight charger and these are far more reasonable.
The only time we usually need to use a public charger is if visiting our daughter in Lincoln. We can arrive on a single charge and then top up in the car park for 34p kwh ready for the journey home.
Round trip from South Essex to Lincoln costs about £25.00

As said not knocking EVs far from it just doing a comparison on costs to see if for me its viable yet was all.

Have had another look at this my figures are miles out dunno what happened will edit the initial post

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Looked for affordable EV that was a hatchback, could carry 4 had at least 200 mile range. Only one that came near Hyundai Kona EV 64kw.
Manufacturer/Official figures

Kona is an expensive car have you looked at MG?

As it says below "Bit of everything" 218 miles on the smaller battery pack this raises to 297 miles for town/city driving.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The other thing is you have to think about the sensitivity to diesel prices - will the oil price go up or down given current events in Russia and the Middle East?

Its going to go up whatever happens in Russia, the government want us out of dirty diesel cars and the easiest ways to do it is to lower the allowed emissions so old diesels fail the MOT and raise the price of diesel.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

dirty diesel

Sorry i couldn't resist -

(yea i know its not DERV)

 

[eyuptm]

Does no one pop a can in the back and drive till it stops then, so you know what it does?

Yes, every time I get an old smoker (habitual Bangernomics fan) I put a can in and run it dry, just to see what latitude I have. Usually takes surprisingly long...

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

As said not knocking EVs far from it just doing a comparison on costs to see if for me its viable yet was all.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. So much depends on how often and where you charge them. They are definitely not viable for everyone.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Kona is an expensive car have you looked at MG?

As it says below "Bit of everything" 218 miles on the smaller battery pack this raises to 297 miles for town/city driving.

View attachment 98293

View attachment 98294

Yes I set out looking for one a while back but they are holding silly money used as can not get enough new stock.

New prices are out of my reach, only thing I dislike about the MG4 is lack of a rear wiper.

I actually like the MG5 Long range as well but same issue very rare used and cant get a decent deal on them just now.

Having reworked the figures and checked them this time I am now looking for an EV that is in budget

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Having reworked the figures and checked them this time I am now looking for an EV that is in budget

Have you considered plug in hybrid or Hybrid?

 

[old dog new tricks]

Have you considered plug in hybrid or Hybrid?

Yes but values are high and not impressed with most of them tbh as the battery is so small for my uses kind of defeats the purpose and dot think the big savings of EVs translate, but hands up I wrong big time about EV running costs so will look see if any deals. Given the poor reputation of Diesel either the few Hybrids be great value or will be outlawed in the near future

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well I have done some digging and researched this properly now

Current car based on 55mpg(real world mpg) @155p for diesel(current average price in my area) covering 15k per year.
Running Costs per year
Fuel £1921
Tax £0

Real World figures from Electric Vehicle Database
Home Charging @9p per KWh
Energy £1349
70/30 Home and Public @50p per KWh
Energy £3194

Tax (from 2025) £190

I may have got the figures wrong hands up but real world the Kona is 267Wh/mi or 3.56 Miles per KW

Sounds plausible. So your 15,000miles/year is 4,213kWh, which at 9p/kWh is £379 not £1349. So that gets you into the roughly £100/month saving area that you were looking for.

And if you are going to start adding in what the tax might be in 2025 then you can use electricity prices from a new contract, like the 7.5p Octopus one I mentioned, or Ovo's 7p plan which would save you another £84/year.

Plus of course if you were just comparing EV vs fossil like for like, any new-to-you diesel car would be paying at least £190 road tax.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Sounds plausible. So your 15,000miles/year is 4,213kWh, which at 9p/kWh is £379 not £1349. So that gets you into the roughly £100/month saving area that you were looking for.

And if you are going to start adding in what the tax might be in 2025 then you can use electricity prices from a new contract, like the 7.5p Octopus one I mentioned, or Ovo's 7p plan which would save you another £84/year.

Plus of course if you were just comparing EV vs fossil like for like, any new-to-you diesel car would be paying at least £190 road tax.

Factor in the difference in servicing costs too

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Yes but values are high and not impressed with most of them tbh as the battery is so small for my uses kind of defeats the purpose and dot think the big savings of EVs translate, but hands up I wrong big time about EV running costs so will look see if any deals. Given the poor reputation of Diesel either the few Hybrids be great value or will be outlawed in the near future

The Toyota hybrids are brilliant owners are reporting huge MPG figures in the forums -

I am considering a Toyota hybrid next so have done plenty of research but i haven't looked at the PHEV as i have nowhere to plug it in at home, a PHEV may be best for you.

What Car? Editor Steve Huntingford said: “Our True MPG test proves that the new Yaris Hybrid has a remarkable ability to sip fuel gently. In town, it achieved 80mpg – almost double the economy of conventionally powered small hatchbacks. And overall it’s the most efficient car we’ve ever tested, managing 59.3mpg.”