Elderflower champagne - when to bottle?

[Zakrabbit]

I have two 5L Elderflower wines on the go at the moment, both have just finished fermenting. One is a home grown using fresh elderflowers from my own elder bushes, the other a Wilko kit.

I plan on trying one bottle from each as an Elderflower champagne, but, im not sure when I should bottle them? So i'd appreciate some advice, ideally tailored to each version -

1. The homegrown. This was racked off to remove the flowers a couple of days ago. It has finished fermenting but has had no other treatment. Should I leave it a while to clear and then syphon off the champagne bottles worth? Or should I just bottle that now?

2. The Wilko. This finished fermenting and had the dried elderflowers added yesterday. The instructions state to leave 24h after adding the flowers before then adding the stabiliser and finings. Now, clearly im not going to add the stabiliser until after ive taken off the champagne bottle full! But, as above, should I just do that now or leave it a while to self clear? Should I add the finings before taking off the champagne bottles worth?

Of course, once I have the two champagne 'samples', the rest of both brews will get stabilised and cleared as normal.

And finally - how much priming sugar should I add? Im using proper 75cl champagne bottles and mushroom corks/cages (the advantage of organising long distance walks for someone who owns a chain of pubs!)

Cheers
M

 

[MmmBeer]

I have 10 litres of elderflower champagne in my brewfridge at the moment, which is due to be racked off the flowers tomorrow. The recipe I am using says transfer to pressure resistant bottles when it reaches 1.010. this should leave enough residual sugars to carbonate to a sensible level in the bottles. No priming sugar needed.

Check the gravity of your batches and syphon into the champagne bottle when this reaches 1.010, if it has passed below this level, you will need to add some priming sugar to the bottle. Enter the s.g. into this https://www.winebusiness.com/tools/?go=winemaking.calc&cid=43 and compare the result with that for 1.010 and multiply by 0.75 for the size of the bottle, to tell you how much sugar to use. If you are doing a flat wine with the rest of each batch, continue to ferment out and stabilise / clear as normal before bottling.

 

[Drunkula]

The recipe I am using says transfer to pressure resistant bottles when it reaches 1.010

Have you actually tried this before? If the champagne even brewed out to 1.000 that would be over 6 volumes of co2 which unless you're using champagne bottles a recipe for disaster. And if you're using something like EC-1118 twice that.

 

[MmmBeer]

Have you actually tried this before? If the champagne even brewed out to 1.000 that would be over 6 volumes of co2 which unless you're using champagne bottles a recipe for disaster. And if you're using something like EC-1118 twice that.

I have a few champagne bottles / corks / cages, but the rest I was planning to put in PET sparkling water bottles. The recipe is from the River Cottage Booze book, described as the 'Safe' method and is quite specific about the gravity number.

I haven't tried this before. I want it to have a good fizz, but I know this drink is prone to bottle bombs. Would you have a suggested FG to aim for? I think I need to do some sums regarding CO2 pressure, SG and pressure ratings of bottles.

 

[Zakrabbit]

OK well as stated in my OP these are already fermented out dry - im not doing the river cottage recipe! (read bad things about it online regarding reliability)
I didnt ask about gravities - I asked about clearing and priming

 

[Drunkula]

Would you have a suggested FG to aim for?

Do you know the yeast used. Thing is you need to be able to fairly reliably know what the final gravity is going to be and then do your calculations from that. 9 gravity points over your final would give you 6 volumes of co2, 5 points over 4 volumes of co2, 4 points over 3.5 volumes.

A definite safe method to use would be to let it ferment out fully and then use sugar and the priming calculator to get it exactly where you want to be. In beer bottles I'd go for 3.5 volumes which is plenty fizzy, champage 6 volumes and PET bottles you can go higher, but 6 is around real champagne levels.

I used this sugar wash calculator to work out the gravity above zero with the amount of sugar the priming calculator gives:
https://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701

 

[Drunkula]

I asked about clearing and priming

Use the priming calculator I linked to above. 6 volumes is a champagne level, but I did a 3.3 volume one before and it was mad fizzy. It was like a jacuzzi in a glass.

 

[MmmBeer]

Do you know the yeast used. Thing is you need to be able to fairly reliably know what the final gravity is going to be and then do your calculations from that. 9 gravity points over your final would give you 6 volumes of co2, 5 points over 4 volumes of co2, 4 points over 3.5 volumes.

A definite safe method to use would be to let it ferment out fully and then use sugar and the priming calculator to get it exactly where you want to be. In beer bottles I'd go for 3.5 volumes which is plenty fizzy, champage 6 volumes and PET bottles you can go higher, but 6 is around real champagne levels.

I used this sugar wash calculator to work out the gravity above zero with the amount of sugar the priming calculator gives:
https://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701

I used Gervin Sparkling Wine yeast. Don't know what the attenuation is, but the OG was 1.075.

I have seen other recipes for elderberry fizz/champagne that also quote 1.010 for bottling. Will take a gravity reading after racking tomorrow.

 

[Zakrabbit]

Use the priming calculator I linked to above. 6 volumes is a champagne level, but I did a 3.3 volume one before and it was mad fizzy. It was like a jacuzzi in a glass.

Cheers. I was thinking around 7-8g in a 75cl bottle, and the calculator says 15g in 75cl for 6 volumes. I might play it safe, since this is my first go at it, and split the difference with 10g

 

[Nicks90]

Same here.
I have decided to play it safe and will be going for 10g per bottle once I'm sure the must has fully fermented out.
Just not worth the clean up hassle!

 

[Oneflewover]

I made some last year and also ignored advice about bottle at a particular specific gravity, preferring to allow it to ferment out then prime. Came out lovely, and will do the same with the batch that I've got on the go at the moment

 

[Drunkula]

Andy Hamilton uses 8g of sugar per litre which would be 2.9 volumes and says that's fine. His earlier Guardian recipes did have 70g per gallon, which is 6 volumes. 10g in a 750ml bottle will get you 4.2 which will be fine for champagne bottles and definitely fizzy - I'd make sure it was chilled before opening as my 3.3 volumes ones at room temperature were lunatic.

http://www.theotherandyhamilton.com...lems-from-mould-no-fizz-to-exploding-bottles/

Earlier recipe
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2011/may/12/gardeningadvice-gardens
Later recipe
http://www.theotherandyhamilton.com...ns-delicious-alcoholic-elderflower-champagne/

 

[R J Trotter]

Have you considered the quantity of elderflowers? In general, elderflower champagne needs fewer heads of flowers than elderflower wine - possibly by a factor of "several" - maybe one head per litre for champagne, but three or four heads per litre of wine. The gas and fizziness in champagne seems to emphasise the bouquet of the elderflowers, and if you have too much it is overpowering and detracts from the enjoyment. I have 10 litres of elderflower champagne fermenting at present, almost ready for bottling (home-grown flowers) and there is another flush of flowers on neighbouring bushes (and one of mine) so I'll collect some and make wine, but I'll use more flower heads for the wine than for the champagne. If you have a fairly strong brew (elderflower-wise) for your wine, perhaps you could take off enough to give you approximately 5 heads (i.e. approx. one head per litre in a DJ) including some yeast sediment, and make up to a gallon in a DJ with water and lemon juice and zest, add some sugar and let that ferment a bit more before bottling it as champagne.
Personally I use PET bottles for champagne - I dislike PET intensely because of the health problems associated with it, but it's better than having an elderflower bomb and the drink is not in it for too long.

 

[chrisbjones202]

I have a few champagne bottles / corks / cages, but the rest I was planning to put in PET sparkling water bottles. The recipe is from the River Cottage Booze book, described as the 'Safe' method and is quite specific about the gravity number.

I haven't tried this before. I want it to have a good fizz, but I know this drink is prone to bottle bombs. Would you have a suggested FG to aim for? I think I need to do some sums regarding CO2 pressure, SG and pressure ratings of bottles.

I followed a river cottage recipe off the C4 website about 8 years ago (they corrected it after). It had too much sugar and pushed the seals out of the grolsch bottles and sprayed the utility ceiling. It was good after a few years tho if a little strong.

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[MmmBeer]

I followed a river cottage recipe off the C4 website about 8 years ago (they corrected it after). It had too much sugar and pushed the seals out of the grolsch bottles and sprayed the utility ceiling. It was good after a few years tho if a little strong.

Have just checked the book, it was published in 2013, so hopefully it has been corrected. It lists three recipes, one risky, one safe and one cheat, I used the safe one.

The OG was 1.075, I racked off the flowers yesterday and it was down to 1.031. I will be using a mixture of champagne bottles and fizzy water bottles, which should both be up to the task, but erring on the side of caution I will probably allow the gravity to drop to about 1.005 before bottling.

 

[chrisbjones202]

Not checked the book but I recall the website was corrected. It was around 2010.

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[Quaffitt]

Hi guys
Newbie, inexperienced fella here.
Followed a similar instruction to attempt some elderflower fizz style wine.
I used the river cottage booze book, multiplying the recipie by 4 and having an original gravity of 1080.
After 5 days of fermentation and infusion with the flowers in I passed off the liquid ready for a "second fermentation".. however my liquid is already down to .992 on the hydrometer and there isn't much going on in terms of fermentation (guess it's done most of the work?)
The liquid I have is now a lower reading than I was aiming for (around 1005 for bottling) and happened at a much faster rate than I was expecting. It has a good elderflower flavour, is a decent colour but obviously a bit too dry!
I don't know what I have done wrong- I multiplied the full recipie by 4- including yeast amounts? Using champagne yeast and also had the yeast nutrient and white grape concentrate in there.
I guess I'm asking what options I have and where I've gone wrong. The fermentation was taking place in a warmish spot (22 degrees) and what you would do in terms of sweetening the liquor, priming any bottles or whether I have ruined the brew with this quick, surprising fermentation? Just whether it's worth persisting with I guess
Thanks for any replies
Matt

 

[Nicks90]

Absolutely! That's a healthy 11.5%
Get it bottled using the safe method someone else referred to above.
Use the link to work out how fizzy you want it, to work out the sugar you need to add. And if you want it sweeter, put in a sweetex per bottle.
The tiny bit of yeast still held in suspension will eat the sugar and produce the fizz.

As you have so much, do a variety.
Some with none, some with one and some with 2 sweeteners and see which you prefer after a couple of months.

 

[Quaffitt]

Absolutely! That's a healthy 11.5%
Get it bottled using the safe method someone else referred to above.
Use the link to work out how fizzy you want it, to work out the sugar you need to add. And if you want it sweeter, put in a sweetex per bottle.
The tiny bit of yeast still held in suspension will eat the sugar and produce the fizz.

As you have so much, do a variety.
Some with none, some with one and some with 2 sweeteners and see which you prefer after a couple of months.

Thanks for the reply- is it a case of just dropping a sweetex in each bottle or do I need to dissolve them first?

 

[Nicks90]

When I do cider for the wife, I just drop one in the bottle