Elderberry Wine Gone Wrong

[ColinF]

I kicked off multiple batches of Elderberry wine in late Oct 21 from berries I had collected and frozen in the weeks before. In general they had 1.5 kgs of berries and 1kg of sugar. They fermented in new plastic food grade buckets for 7 days and I then strained them into DJs. I racked them about 3 weeks later as there was quite a lot of sediment and then racked them again 2 months later (end of Jan 2022) with minimal sediment.

When I did the first racking in late Nov, I noticed each of the DJs had what looked like a surface layer of darkish brown oil sitting on the surface which then smeared down the inside of the DJ as the wine was siphoned out. Then on 2nd racking in late Jan I noticed some evidence of oily residue, but not so much as the first time round.

As I racked each of the 5 DJs I had a 'wee' taste from each. Nothing unpleasant, but a few 'oh my' moments, thinking ah it will taste better with age. Anyway within a few hours I became aware that I wasn't feeling to great. Not sickly but crampy stomach. Now that afternoon I'd also had 2 really big portions of stodgy cake that should really have gone to the birds, but I was saving them from it so I couldn't really say whether it was the wine or cake that made me feel off. Anyway the feeling took 3 days or so to subside.

So yesterday I took the plunge and had two glasses of wine from what I put in a bottle having topped up the DJs after their 2nd racking. Sure enough 2-3 hours later, sore stomach and still feeling that way today. So I guess it's safe to say it was the wine

When I first started these batches I had extra liquid and ended up with 5 DJs plus 2-3 litres which I put in glass bottles under airlock. I then used this 'extra' to top up all 5 DJs after each racking. It was the remainder of the 'extra' that I drank yesterday which made me feel unwell.

Sadly that now means the entire 5 gallons needs to go down the sink because every DJ has been topped up from the same source. Not something I will do in future. I'll just be topping up with water.

Has anyone else experienced the oily residue from Elderberries or any other country wine ?

Anyone else been unfortunate enough to make themselves ill from their country wine ?

Kit & SJWs are working fine, so I'm thinking that my sterilising routine on equipment is OK

Feeling a little disillusioned but not giving up

 

[Elderflower.]

Hiya,I can`t say I have exactly the same experience,but I do occasionally see an oily film on some wines,I have never really worried about it.I imagine many country ingredients contain essential oils of one form or another,also if using sultanas/raisins,they often have vegetable oil on them.

With elderberries though I find it needs to be kept for years. They have a reputation as classic country wine material,but I find them such a pain,there is so much tannin which makes it harsh when young and they will continue to throw a sediment for years in storage. These days I usually throw a lb or so in per gallon when doing my blackberry wine,instead of doing elderberry on its own,which seems to work ok.
Dont tip it all though,put it aside for a year and then try again,you may be surprised.
Dont give up!

 

[ColinF]

With elderberries though I find it needs to be kept for years. They have a reputation as classic country wine material,but I find them such a pain,there is so much tannin which makes it harsh when young and they will continue to throw a sediment for years in storage.

I was expecting it to need at least 9-12 months conditioning but I wasn't expecting it to make me feel unwell

 

[user 44889]

Hiya,I can`t say I have exactly the same experience,but I do occasionally see an oily film on some wines,I have never really worried about it.I imagine many country ingredients contain essential oils of one form or another,also if using sultanas/raisins,they often have vegetable oil on them.

With elderberries though I find it needs to be kept for years. They have a reputation as classic country wine material,but I find them such a pain,there is so much tannin which makes it harsh when young and they will continue to throw a sediment for years in storage. These days I usually throw a lb or so in per gallon when doing my blackberry wine,instead of doing elderberry on its own,which seems to work ok.
Dont tip it all though,put it aside for a year and then try again,you may be surprised.
Dont give up!

I made a gallon of Elderberry wine in June 2020, cleared beautifully and bottled without filtering in Oct 2020. Cracked a bottle last week after 16 months and bottle had loads of sediment in it and wine did not taste great... went down the sink... do you think its worth keeping the rest for a few more years or just ditch the lot. Used 4lb Elderberries ans 2.25 lb suger. Came out at 13.21%

 

[Nicks90]

Keep it. Unless you are desperate for space or bottles, put them away for another year and try again.

I cracked open an elderflower wine I did 5 years ago that was like paint stripper shortly after bottling. It was lovely - amazing what the years can do!

 

[user 44889]

Keep it. Unless you are desperate for space or bottles, put them away for another year and try again.

I cracked open an elderflower wine I did 5 years ago that was like paint stripper shortly after bottling. It was lovely - amazing what the years can do!

I'm ok for space so I'll keep the other 4 bottles for at least another year then try one then. Thanks for the advice and will hope they get better... it wasn't undrinkable but thought as so much sediment something was wrong hence it went down the sink. Thanks again.

 

[ColinF]

I've read that Elderberry just keeps on giving (in terms of sediment). Mine smelled, looked and tasted ok, but gave me a sore tum within a couple of hours

 

[user 44889]

I've read that Elderberry just keeps on giving (in terms of sediment). Mine smelled, looked and tasted ok, but gave me a sore tum within a couple of hours

That doesn't sound good. Hope your feeling better now. might still be worth keeping it a couple of years to see what happens... as Elderflower and Nicks90 have said. Instead of having 2 glasses have a couple of sips and see if it makes you unwell again... at least you'd have had a year or so to get over it
I've decided to keep mine for a couple more years to see what happens but as you said... it keeps on giving... couldn't believe how much sediment there was... totally clear when bottled.

 

[Barleylass]

I've read that Elderberry just keeps on giving (in terms of sediment). Mine smelled, looked and tasted ok, but gave me a sore tum within a couple of hours

Just a thought, did you remove all the stalks as I understand that they are poisonous?

 

[ColinF]

Just a thought, did you remove all the stalks as I understand that they are poisonous?

There may have been a few small pieces but I was pretty careful when stripping the berries with a fork.

The only other thing I can think is that some of the berries may have been just a little under ripe

 

[ColinF]

The only other thing I can think is that some of the berries may have been just a little under ripe

Mmm think I may have answered my own question here. Didnt consider that a slight greeness on some of the berries would be an issue. Lesson learned. Guess I've got 5 DJs to go and empty

 

[Tanglefoot]

Did you do initial fermentation in a straining bag and use pectolase ?
As Elderflower suggested, I find elderberries on their own too harsh and better combined with other red fruits.
Last batch I made in autumn 2020 I used 90% Blackberries and 10% elderberries and it was very drinkable even after 6months.
Just tried it again recently and it's improved
markedly, crystal clear and delicious blackberry flavour.

 

[ColinF]

Mine were all Elderberry. Primary ferment in buckets with pectolase, then strained through fine mesh bag.

 

[user 44889]

Same for mine but added 1 campden then left it 24 hours.

 

[ColinF]

Same for mine but added 1 campden then left it 24 hours.

Yip did that first

 

[user 44889]

Mmm think I may have answered my own question here. Didnt consider that a slight greeness on some of the berries would be an issue. Lesson learned. Guess I've got 5 DJs to go and empty

Think you might be right. Didn't know the green berries are poisonous too. feel for you having to tip away 5 DJ s...
Im lucky and have a massive Elder in my kitchen garden so get the flowers for Elderflower wine and then when the berries ripen pick them and straight into freezer until i have enough. Think from now on will do a 50/ 50 with Blackberries or as Tanflefoot has said do a 90/10

 

[ColinF]

Think I'll just give Elderberry a wide berth in future. Plenty other 'stuff' to ferment

Got rosehips bubbling away just now

 

[user 44889]

Have you done Rose Hip before I've never made it and wondered if it was worth doing. Made 2 lots of Rose Petal, tried to make first one a sparkling one but failed miserably... made a nice still wine though. Lol.
On the go I've got
1x gallon mead
1x gallon exotic friut
1x gallon cranberry and red grape ( from juice )
2 ltr flagon of Cranberry( all juice no water )
2ltr flagon of Apple and Red Grape (all juice no water )
Wil be doing some kits and fruit wines when the weather warms up..... but cold up he in bonnie Scotland at no lol

 

[ColinF]

This is my first attempt at rose hip. Oh I know, I live by Thurso

 

[user 44889]

This is my first attempt at rose hip. Oh I know, I live by Thurso

Keep us posted how it goes.