Dry yeast review...

[An Ankoù]

I always thought S-04 was weird.

 

[phildo79]

I've had good success with it. And I like how fast it gets the job done. I brewed a lager kit about 6 months ago and used the sachet of yeast that came with it. Christ almighty was that slow. Think it was in the FV for 10 days. For an effing 5% lager!

 

[MickDundee]

I always thought S-04 was weird.

I had a bad experience with it when I first used it. It was totally my own fault because I pitched it too hot but it’s put me off ever using it again

 

[AdeDunn]

I just want to address something here.

I see a lot of people who comment about how dried yeast gets a bashing, but I have yet to see dried yeast actually get bashed, ever. All I see is people saying that for yeast driven styles, you can often get better results with a liquid yeast, but that dried yeast most certainly has a place, and has many benefits. Liquid yeast though there's way more choice! You just don't get the same choice with dried, and I suspect that this is why you can get better results with liquid when a style is more reliant on yeast, as you can tweak another variable far more than you can with dried. Find me a dried yeast for example that can do the same job as the Wyeast Old Ale Blend (WY-9097-PC), you won't because it doesn't exist, because for one you can't get dried brett. Unless you get it from a hobbyist or direct from Norway, you can't get dried Kveik yet either, and that stuff is awesome.

Want to pitch without a starter? Can't be bothered with temperature control? Worried about the expense of liquid yeast? 100mls of liquid Kveik will do you about 8 brews at least. Most of them, if you want clean you ferment at about 20-23 degrees C, et voila it's clean. You want more flavour, ramp up the temps, pitch warmer. Saves water on cooling wort too when you only need to cool down to 30-40 degrees C depending on the Kveik you're using.

So for me at least, I'm afraid that many of the advantages that dried yeast used to have are quickly vanishing. Only ones left really are shelf life and ease of storage.

Dried yeast isn't bad, it's just that you can do more with liquid. It's like bread. A white loaf isn't bad, but there are so many other delicious breads out there, some of which are nicer.

 

[Sadfield]

I always thought S-04 was weird.

I'm not keen on the ester profile, although it's clean at low fermentation temperatures. And has a tang to it. Apparently, it produces more lactic than most yeasts.

 

[Sadfield]

I just want to address something here.

I see a lot of people who comment about how dried yeast gets a bashing, but I have yet to see dried yeast actually get bashed, ever. All I see is people saying that for yeast driven styles, you can often get better results with a liquid yeast, but that dried yeast most certainly has a place, and has many benefits. Liquid yeast though there's way more choice! You just don't get the same choice with dried, and I suspect that this is why you can get better results with liquid when a style is more reliant on yeast, as you can tweak another variable far more than you can with dried. Find me a dried yeast for example that can do the same job as the Wyeast Old Ale Blend (WY-9097-PC), you won't because it doesn't exist, because for one you can't get dried brett. Unless you get it from a hobbyist or direct from Norway, you can't get dried Kveik yet either, and that stuff is awesome.

Want to pitch without a starter? Can't be bothered with temperature control? Worried about the expense of liquid yeast? 100mls of liquid Kveik will do you about 8 brews at least. Most of them, if you want clean you ferment at about 20-23 degrees C, et voila it's clean. You want more flavour, ramp up the temps, pitch warmer. Saves water on cooling wort too when you only need to cool down to 30-40 degrees C depending on the Kveik you're using.

So for me at least, I'm afraid that many of the advantages that dried yeast used to have are quickly vanishing. Only ones left really are shelf life and ease of storage.

Dried yeast isn't bad, it's just that you can do more with liquid. It's like bread. A white loaf isn't bad, but there are so many other delicious breads out there, some of which are nicer.

I find the big advantage of dry yeast is the ability to accurately and reliably pitch the correct amount of yeast. It's why I don't like to see people repitching slurry or throwing the whole packet in.

I also think this feeds into the, liquid yeast is better, arguement. If a brewer overpitching for these reasons, then a dry yeast will often produce a bland beer.

Wet or dry. Pick the right yeast for the flavour you want, and pitch the correct amount.

 

[JonBrew]

I find the big advantage of dry yeast is the ability to accurately and reliably pitch the correct amount of yeast. It's why I don't like to see people repitching slurry or throwing the whole packet in.

I also think this feeds into the, liquid yeast is better, arguement. If a brewer overpitching for these reasons, then a dry yeast will often produce a bland beer.

Wet or dry. Pick the right yeast for the flavour you want, and pitch the correct amount.

This is very interesting. Out of interest, what pitching rate calculator are you using to work out how much dried yeast you need? From looking around online, it seems there are varying (some widely) views on the number of yeast cells per gram of dried yeast and manufacturers seems to offer very conservative estimated cell counts in their data sheets. Just looking at the brewersfriend.com calculator as an example, the data they base their calculator on would seem to suggest that, for your average size homebrew batch of 1050 wort, most brewers would be under pitching if they used a single sachet of dried yeast, rather then over pitching.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[AdeDunn]

I just know what I've found for myself. I've been getting much nicer beer since I made the change to liquid. I haven't suddenly started using temp control or anything either. I would agree though that I am probably taking more care over pitching rates for sure. Although in the case of my old ale, I pitched an entire pouch into 14 litres, but that was without a starter, so probably broke even on it. I did this as I had no plans to use the blend again this year. Until I tasted a sample when bottling that was, and now it's too late as it's a seasonal one.... lol

I still have some dried yeast in the fridge, it's a good fallback should things not go well at the end of the day.

 

[Sadfield]

This is very interesting. Out of interest, what pitching rate calculator are you using to work out how much dried yeast you need? From looking around online, it seems there are varying (some widely) views on the number of yeast cells per gram of dried yeast and manufacturers seems to offer very conservative estimated cell counts in their data sheets. Just looking at the brewersfriend.com calculator as an example, the data they base their calculator on would seem to suggest that, for your average size homebrew batch of 1050 wort, most brewers would be under pitching if they used a single sachet of dried yeast, rather then over pitching.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

I use the one built into beersmith, or Mr. Malty.

How about 19L of 1.040? Mr Malty gives 7.5g (60% Of a 11.5g sachet), in an English bitter that would be an over pitch. It's often in these beers where dry yeast gets a reputation for being bland compared to their liquid counterparts. Where as neutral US yeasts in stronger (c1.050og) US styles, often get approval.

 

[jceg316]

I haven't asked many breweries in fairness but when I have I've found most seem to be using dried strains over liquid. Nottingham seems to be used very widely as does US-05.

If it recall correctly, Beavertown's core range is almost all US-05. I saw Left Handed Giant released a beer recently and they listed US-05 as the yeast strain. I don't personally use dried yeast all that often but I don't understand the bashing it takes and why folk think it's massively inferior to liquid. I know for certain that highly revered brewers such as Cloudwater have use both dried an liquid strains - I had an IPL from them a year or so ago that used the W-34/70 strain. I believe the Kernel also use dried strains in some of their beers.

I like US-05 a lot - it's reliable, very easy to work with and I personally just pitch direct with good results as the manufacturer recommends. My only issue with it is it over attenuates in my experience.

Completely agree with what you say. I think back in the 90s dry yeast wasn't as good as liquid yeast which is where it comes from, but these days it's good enough for a lot of fantastic commercial beers. My favourite brewery Fourpure use US-05 in most their beers, and when I was living in Ireland in 2016 I met a local commercial brewer who used US-05 to make their kolsch. They were using a liquid strain but they said it was too "difficult" to deal with.

W-34/70 is a great strain and one of my favourites. I've read a few places that it's used in many commercial breweries across Europe to make lagers. I've found it to be pretty resilient to temperature fluctuations and can be fermented quite warm for lager yeast.

 

[MrRook]

According to this gene sequencing correlation chart Fermentis S-33 and Lallemand Windsor are genetically quite close to being twins. Find them at about the 9:30 time slot position on this yeast chart circle.

So I can expect similar attenuation? My 1.048 stout has seemingly stopped at 1.020.

 

[Drunkula]

So I can expect similar attenuation?

The wheat's I've been doing with s-33 have been getting about 80% attenuation. 1.052 to 1.009 on the last one.

 

[fourbob]

I bought a 500g packet of S-04 a few years ago and I've still got a good 150g left. It's all I use, regardless of style (although I pretty much only make stouts and IPA's, with the occasional pale ale). I have always found it to be a fast acting yeast. Sometimes the ferment is over in 3 days, if the temp is right. Very clean ferment as well. Never had an issue with haze.

Out of interest, how do you store your yeast? I've been looking at some of the bigger packs but wasn't sure if they'd suffer from being kept once opened.

 

[phildo79]

I have it in a bag, with as much air squeezed out as possible and then clipped. Then it is in an airtight lunchbox. Then it is in the fridge / freezer. The expiry date was December 2018 but it still gets the job done.

 

[Drunkula]

Out of interest, how do you store your yeast? I've been looking at some of the bigger packs but wasn't sure if they'd suffer from being kept once opened.

Dry sachets in the freezer. Liquid yeasts from overbuilds in a 50:50 water:glycerine solution and in the freezer.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Could members do us a favour and add some reviews to the - The Forum Members Yeast Review Thread A - Z thanks

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/forums/grain-hops-yeast-water.27/

.

 

[An Ankoù]

Completely agree with what you say. I think back in the 90s dry yeast wasn't as good as liquid yeast which is where it comes from, but these days it's good enough for a lot of fantastic commercial beers. My favourite brewery Fourpure use US-05 in most their beers, and when I was living in Ireland in 2016 I met a local commercial brewer who used US-05 to make their kolsch. They were using a liquid strain but they said it was too "difficult" to deal with.

W-34/70 is a great strain and one of my favourites. I've read a few places that it's used in many commercial breweries across Europe to make lagers. I've found it to be pretty resilient to temperature fluctuations and can be fermented quite warm for lager yeast.

I absolutely agree with you W-34/70 is my fall back yeast in extremis. It'll ferment cold and make a nice lager with a delicate fruity background or up to 30C when it'll produce an ester profile like an average top fermenting yeast. But BEWARE, it stinks while it's doing the job. None of that spoils the beer.

 

[fourbob]

I have it in a bag, with as much air squeezed out as possible and then clipped. Then it is in an airtight lunchbox. Then it is in the fridge / freezer. The expiry date was December 2018 but it still gets the job done.

Just popping on here to say thanks for the advice, currently working my way through a 100g pack of Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell, if its still up to the task by the time I get to the end of it I may well look into the 500g options available. Cheers!

 

[phildo79]

100g pack of Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell

How much did it cost?

 

[fourbob]

It was about £20 from Homebrew Company - so a bit of a saving compared to the regular 10g packs but not massive. For me it's the convenience, I sometimes fond that the yeasts I want are out of stock at the point I'm ready to order my next supply of grain, so a bigger pack helps out that way.