Drink and drive limits. [POLL]

[Chippy_Tea]

Don't drink and drive, anyone that does should get an instant ban as far as I'm concerned.

I doubt many here would disagree, 20 years ago attitudes to drinking and driving were a lot more relaxed and I know many people who used to do it regularly, I don't mean people getting smashed then driving I mean people having three or four pints over a few hours most people now wouldn't dream of driving after four pints but that isn't really why I started the thread the dig issue for me is the effect lowering the allowance and especially a zero limit would have on the pub trade when the morning after effect is taken into consideration.

 

[Gunge]

I've always though 10 pints was the limit. Y'mean I've been wrong all along?? ****.

 

[Oneflewover]

Is there any evidence that it has impacted upon rural pub closure in Scotland? Sorry if I missed it, but can't see lowering the limit would have any adverse effect at all.

 

[Martybhoy]

I'm not aware of rural pubs here in Scotland struggling as a result of this. Has never been mentioned, either in the news or in conversation.

What did happen though, was people not being fully aware of the reduction and what that actually meant in physical terms. Loads of folk believed, and still do, that the new limit is so low that having any trace of alcohol in your body would result in being over the limit. When in fact, the reduction was only from 80mg to 50mg (not a huge reduction). My dad won't drive on the same day he has had even a mouthful of beer.

Personally, if I think I have alcohol in my system, regardless of how little, I won't drive. That applied before the reduction too. I work on the rule of thumb that 1 unit of alcohol takes one hour to leave your system (for your liver to process it I think). Then add a couple of hours.

 

[chrisbjones202]

Some strong comments on here. I expect most of us on here would not deliberately drink and drive however im not sure we know how quickly we actually process it by the following morning (or if that time is consistent) and especially how long it takes to get back to zero, note that some people naturally produce it. Personally I don’t drink too much or too late into the evening if I’m driving early next day.

It would be interesting to know the statistics of accidents between 50mg and 80mg where alcohol was the cause.

 

[Derekmr]

From what I know it has not had any bad effect on pubs, as usual people have a knee jerk reaction, just like when smoking in pubs was banned,
You don't "have" to drink alcohol at pub, or take turns to be the driver it's not hard.

 

[marshbrewer]

Oh yeah, because the smoking ban had absolutely no effect on pubs at all......

 

[terrym]

As always with all these things there's a balance to be had. In this case driving after you have been drinking lowers your capability, there are people who make a living out of selling alcoholic drinks, someone's life can be ruined by or taken away by a driver over the limit, but I don't think we don't want to completely take away people's liberties at the point when it actually makes little difference. So although the limit is meant to be at the point where it is perceived it is still 'safe' to drive, it is also a deterrent as well. If the deterrent stops people drinking that's good in my view. So as the survey says does the current limit deter enough people to make a difference. I can't answer that. I know I rarely have a drink when I will be driving shortly after.
And as to the comment someone made above about old boys regularly consuming five pints then getting behind the wheel, apart from the fact that it's illegal, what about the position of the publican/licensee who must know what's going on if its a local pub and they are regular customers. Apart from that being socially unacceptable, in my view he/she deserves to lose their licence.

 

[foxbat]

If, like most of us, you eat food then you have a natural non-zero blood/alcohol level making a zero limit impossible in practice.

 

[Martybhoy]

I agree with Terry. The reduction is more likely to be a deterrent than having a significant impact on reducing accidents in the 50-80mg/l range.

 

[stz]

Some people will ignore the law. Others will chance it and others will abstain completely if driving. The amount of people who will chance it depends on the perceived risk. If you make the limit 0 or what is perceived to be really low then less people will risk it. If you make it low enough that this group in the middle shrinks to almost nothing then further reductions have no further impact and will likely just further penalise people who would have had an accident anyway irrespective of a pint of beer. All the arguments to support to reject it on the grounds of safety are probably a secondary concern compared to just moderating behaviour. The other way to moderate behaviour would be greater numbers of checks, but then that costs money.

But yeah, if you make the limit 0 then suddenly every accident has alcohol as a factor. Alcohol is found in the blood of everybody who has had an accident. Some breads are as high as 1.5g/100g ethanol, ripe bananas are up to 0.5g/100g. Background levels in the body are 1.5mg/L.

I grew up with very relaxed rural attitudes towards drinking and driving. Put the car in a ditch, sleep it off, have the farmer tow you out the next day. Police would pull you, tell you off. Nobody batted an eyelid. Therefore I got the full brunt of public re-education and grew up to be a precocious little git determined not to carry on the mistakes of my elders. The only acceptable amount of alcohol is NO alcohol. These days I am glad to have the option of a pint when out with the car every now and then. The following morning especially should not be fraught with terror because I've had two the night before. I believe I fall into the camp of dealing with it in a responsible way and wouldn't support any changes because it'd just force me to moderate my already sensible behaviour or stitch me up one day while haven't no impact upon the other two groups.

 

[Derekmr]

If, like most of us, you eat food then you have a natural non-zero blood/alcohol level making a zero limit impossible in practice.

I'm sure that would be factored in

 

[Derekmr]

Oh yeah, because the smoking ban had absolutely no effect on pubs at all......

It hasn't really, people with any sense are happy to go outside, it's only people that want to complain don't.

 

[stz]

I'm sure that would be factored in

Having to factor things in just shows how unworkable and relatively pointless having a level like zero would be. It'd always have to contain a bunch of factors to make it actually make any sense. Zero means zero, except for alcohol from food consumption, natural variation, medicine and tinctures and metabolic conditions below a certain threshold ... got it boss, zero means zero.

The problem is always "the limit is xyz" - great so how much can I safely drink? "you can't drink anything safely" - well I don't want to hear that, so how much can I drink? They'll always be people like that who want to push it because of their attitude towards driving.

I drink at least half a pint of beer throughout the day at work. Later I drive home. Saying anybody who drinks and drives should be banned for life where the criteria for such a ban is a road side blood test result of greater than zero is unworkable madness. Maybe one day they'll change the limit, probably by winding everybody up with tragic stories of those who've lost loved ones due to alcohol related accidents. Maybe one day I'll get banned for life for having alcohol in my blood stream which was unlikely to have been a factor in the accident, like I'm hit from behind waiting at the lights. The story will be man loses license after accident resulting in injury due to being over the legal limit. Sounds awful. I can see how I'd have totally deserved that.

 

[Derekmr]

Having to factor things in just shows how unworkable and relatively pointless having a level like zero would be. It'd always have to contain a bunch of factors to make it actually make any sense. Zero means zero, except for alcohol from food consumption, natural variation, medicine and tinctures and metabolic conditions below a certain threshold ... got it boss, zero means zero.

The problem is always "the limit is xyz" - great so how much can I safely drink? "you can't drink anything safely" - well I don't want to hear that, so how much can I drink? They'll always be people like that who want to push it because of their attitude towards driving.

I drink at least half a pint of beer throughout the day at work. Later I drive home. Saying anybody who drinks and drives should be banned for life where the criteria for such a ban is a road side blood test result of greater than zero is unworkable madness. Maybe one day they'll change the limit, probably by winding everybody up with tragic stories of those who've lost loved ones due to alcohol related accidents. Maybe one day I'll get banned for life for having alcohol in my blood stream which was unlikely to have been a factor in the accident, like I'm hit from behind waiting at the lights. The story will be man loses license after accident resulting in injury due to being over the legal limit. Sounds awful. I can see how I'd have totally deserved that.

A bit melodramatic....
Drop it to 10mg, then no drinking and driving, simple.

Anyway, I've said what I think and will leave it there,
Regards.

 

[Clint]

I work in a factory that uses high volumes of solvents...industrial alcohols.
Many years ago a chap working there was breathalised and found to be over the limit as he had inhaled vapours over a shift...a doctor told the police that this was possible and nothing more was said...

 

[simon12]

Just wondered if anyone knows what the current limits are based on?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

From what I know it has not had any bad effect on pubs, as usual people have a knee jerk reaction, just like when smoking in pubs was banned

I don't think there has been a knee jerk reaction its a poll to see what members views are.

I often go out for a pub meal in village pubs in my area as a lot of them do really nice food and will have a couple of pints during the evening (and no more) SWMBO doesn't drive so if they brought the limit down to the equivalent of 1 pint or non at all i would not bother why go to a pub for a meal if you cannot enjoy a couple of pints while eating it you may as well go to the local chippy or Chinese and eat it at home, if others feel the same village pubs would suffer.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

And as to the comment someone made above about old boys regularly consuming five pints then getting behind the wheel, apart from the fact that it's illegal, what about the position of the publican/licensee who must know what's going on if its a local pub and they are regular customers. Apart from that being socially unacceptable, in my view he/she deserves to lose their licence.

I totally agree Terry but this was 25 years ago (it was my post) and attitudes to drinking and driving as many things (sexist and racist joke and on the telly etc) were a lot different back then than they are today and that is no bad thing.

 

[foxbat]

We do appear to be out of step with our neighbours on this: