Does this sound like an infection?

[Linalmeemow]

Hmmm, the dude in LHBS (Glasgow) said that star san "forms a barrier" and "should not" be rinsed after application

As I understand it Starsan is a weak acid that is strong enough to kill bacteria after a few seconds of contact. There's no barrier about it, the bacteria are dead unless reintroduced so as long as you don't rinse with unsanitary water you'll be fine.

 

[Brewmarc]

As I understand it Starsan is a weak acid that is strong enough to kill bacteria after a few seconds of contact. There's no barrier about it, the bacteria are dead unless reintroduced so as long as you don't rinse with unsanitary water you'll be fine.

Rinsing any sanitiser with mains household tap water is fine most tap water has chlorine &/or chloramine which in the quantities left in the bottle after rinsing will not introduce infection & have a negligible effect on taste or the ability of remaining yeast to carbonate.

 

[ravey]

Sure it does. Heat is how Pasteurisation work.

Hmm, I said that based on the sanitisation of test tubes used in yeast culturing but perhaps that's for killing off other nasties like botulism.

 

[MyQul]

It's actually relatively hard to infect a brew. Everything is against it happening (microbes struggle to surive in alcohol, low PH, anti-microbial properties of hops, etc), from what I understand the guys that hunt wild yeast often struggle to catch any.

I recently had a EKG pale ale that had a weird undertaste to it. A week later it had completely gone and tasted like it was supposed to. Nowadays I only think something is an infection if it is extremely disgusting to drink and is completely obvious it's an infection. Infection is now the last thing on my list to look at. It's probably something else

 

[Brewmarc]

It's actually relatively hard to infect a brew. Everything is against it happening (microbes struggle to surive in alcohol, low PH, anti-microbial properties of hops, etc), from what I understand the guys that hunt wild yeast often struggle to catch any.

I recently had a EKG pale ale that had a weird undertaste to it. A week later it had completely gone and tasted like it was supposed to. Nowadays I only think something is an infection if it is extremely disgusting to drink and is completely obvious it's an infection. Infection is now the last thing on my list to look at. It's probably something else

I totally agree with this,:thumb: the culprit to some disturbing off flavours that seem to miraculously dissapeer as if by magic I beleave is often the yeast, the strain, & how it is managed, I am a firm believer in secondary fermentation in which the yeast has time to mop up the last remaining fermentables mainly carbohydrates & any off flavours due to yeast metabolism are subsequently driven off with the Co2 coming out of solution.

 

[IainM]

Ok, thanks all. I don't think it is an infection - the off flavour became apparent too soon for it to be wild yeast, and there are no other signs of infection. I'm still completely baffled by why two consecutive beers would have the same unpleasant taste in the trial jar despite being made with different hops, yeast, grain and indeed water (Ashbeck for IIPA and tap for stout), and that the flavour is something I hadn't tasted in the previous 34 brews I've done. I guess I'll leave the stout to carbonate and condition as normal, and leave the IIPA in bulk for another month or so. I can always dry hop it later.

 

[MyQul]

I'm still completely baffled by why two consecutive beers would have the same unpleasant taste in the trial jar....

I think brewmarc is onto it, in that is some sort of compound/off flavour kicked out by the yeast which needs a little conditioning time to clean up. Just like my EKGpale

 

[JerryP]

For cleaning the FV, I use PBW in warm water to clean - a good wipe around with it and a soak covering the tap and thermowell. Then rinse with warm water.

Only after a good clean do I use StarSan.

I then give another clean, rinse and StarSan again immediately before use.

StarSan is a sanitiser, not a cleaner. You must clean well before sanitising.

 

[MyQul]

StarSan is a sanitiser, not a cleaner. You must clean well before sanitising.

True dat!

You can actually miss out sanitising as long as you clean well. Santising after cleaning is belt and braces (not that I dont sanitise - I'm deffo a belt and braces man)

 

[mattellis70]

First thought is starsan is not a cleaner. If you have microscopic organic deposits there will be bugs under it that the starsan cannot get at. First clean with a mix of warm water and PBW or orther oxygen based cleaner. Rinse at least 3 times then sanitize before you use it.


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[mattellis70]

Depending on your rig you might also want to take apart any valves you have at least quarterly and clean them.


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[magicalpanc]

Depending on your rig you might also want to take apart any valves you have at least quarterly and clean them.

^ this. Ball valves can get really nasty if not taken apart regularly.

I tend to make high gravity brews as well and have learned to recognise off flavors associated with the stressed yeast. If even after conditioning for some time and flavors dont change i would suspect infection. I think someone might have mentioned going with a new FV to rule that out.

 

[IainM]

I've a cheap set-up. No ball valves and I boil the tap on the peco before every brew, and the one on the bottling bucket before bottling. I think I'll invest in a new fv and use the old one for storing grain.

 

[The Idiot]

For starters, stouts should generally condition for 3 months or more and IIPAs the same or longer. Harsh notes will disappear. If the taste has a 'tobacco' thing you probably didn't let the yeast finish off the clean-up; that'll age out too.

I have been trying to harvest wild yeast from my brewery and orchard for months; I doubt it'll be that as the healthy Saccharomyces will have taken control.

 

[IainM]

Well, the stout still has the taste despite being brewed two months ago, though it is now drinkable. The AIPA is still bulk conditioning.

Yesterday I bottled a Hefeweizen, and there it is again. Not nearly as pronounced, and I can tell that behind that taste is the makings of a great hefeweizen, but it is there for sure. It wasn't apparent in the trial jar, only after fermenting. The only thing is common between the three beers was the fv and peco boiler. Again, there was scorching on the element, but not as much - perhaps because of the lower grain bill and the fact that I skimmed the foam off during the boil, though the 50% wheat bill would probably encourage scorching if anything. Burnt residue still needed to be scraped off the element. The fv received a thorough clean - warm soap wipe-down, much rinsing, 24h with warm oxy, rinsed again, vpw, rinsed again, boiling water, then star san. This thing was as white and odourless as the day it was bought. There are no visible scratches, so I'm fairly certain it isn't the fv. By elimination, it will probably be due to scorched wort, either hidden by the sweetness of the trial jar or exacerbated by an interaction with the yeast.

So, today is a diagnostic brew day. I'm doing a Best Bitter, maxi-biab like MyQul does, so that I avoid using the peco for the boil and instead use my casserole and 15L stock pot to do a concentrated boil, then water down a bit in the fv. This way, if it is still there after bottling then I can blame the fv. If it isn't, then the element was the culprit.