Does the Alpha Acid of hops affect the dry hop?

[samnorfolk]

So does the aa of hops affect the dry hop process? does it work the same as when bittering?

 

[geetee]

The alpha acids in hops only become bitter when they are subjected to heat circa 100°C for extended time. The alpha acids are converted to iso alpha acids which gives the bitterness. if you add into a fermenting beer or after fermentation then there is not enough heat to convert to iso compounds and so no bitterness is added.

It is also debatable whether late hops at 5- 10 minutes add significant amounts of bitterness as they are not boiled very long. I always ignore their contribution.

Hops also contain beta acids which are significantly more insoluble and can give harsh bitter compounds if left in beer for any length of time. These are the compounds that give ageing beer its more dank grassy bitter flavour. not really the same as the freshly added alpha compounds that we are after.

 

[samnorfolk]

The alpha acids in hops only become bitter when they are subjected to heat circa 100°C for extended time. The alpha acids are converted to iso alpha acids which gives the bitterness. if you add into a fermenting beer or after fermentation then there is not enough heat to convert to iso compounds and so no bitterness is added.

It is also debatable whether late hops at 5- 10 minutes add significant amounts of bitterness as they are not boiled very long. I always ignore their contribution.

Hops also contain beta acids which are significantly more insoluble and can give harsh bitter compounds if left in beer for any length of time. These are the compounds that give ageing beer its more dank grassy bitter flavour. not really the same as the freshly added alpha compounds that we are after.

Ok thanks, but do the 5-10 mins hop addition still add aroma/flavour? Or would i be best of to save the hops and combine it all in a dry hop?

 

[geetee]

Ok thanks, but do the 5-10 mins hop addition still add aroma/flavour? Or would i be best of to save the hops and combine it all in a dry hop?

Yes, you still get the flavour aroma from the late hops just the bitterness is either much less or none at all. That is the point of the late hops to get the flavour without the bitterness.

The reverse is true for full flavour hops such as centennial, cascade columbus etc, I tend not to use them as bittering hops as all of the flavor is lost during the boil when you can use clean bittering hops for this purpose, it makes more financial sense to use the good flavour hops for late use.

 

[samnorfolk]

Yes, you still get the flavour aroma from the late hops just the bitterness is either much less or none at all. That is the point of the late hops to get the flavour without the bitterness.

The reverse is true for full flavour hops such as centennial, cascade columbus etc, I tend not to use them as bittering hops as all of the flavor is lost during the boil when you can use clean bittering hops for this purpose, it makes more financial sense to use the good flavour hops for late use.

I had done this with a recent cascade brew, i used magnum to bitter and then added 20g cascade @ 10 mins, 20g cascade @ 1 min and then dry hopped with 60g cascade for 5 days, its nice but didn't get that big punch of cascade i would have expected

 

[HebridesRob]

So does the aa of hops affect the dry hop process? does it work the same as when bittering?

I would have given the same answers as above.

Have a read of this...
http://beersmith.com/blog/2013/01/21/late-hop-additions-and-hop-oils-in-beer-brewing/

Then this...
http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-addition-exbeeriment-results/

Hmmm?

 

[geetee]

I had done this with a recent cascade brew, i used magnum to bitter and then added 20g cascade @ 10 mins, 20g cascade @ 1 min and then dry hopped with 60g cascade for 5 days, its nice but didn't get that big punch of cascade i would have expected

Unfortunately Sam lots of brewers do the same and don't get the big punch they expected. That is the mystery and magic of brewing and why there are lots of different ways to add late and dry hops for flavour, You have to find what works best for you when it comes to getting the flavour out of hops

 

[Bunglebrewsbeer]

I dry hopped my recent brew with 100g of pellets. And blimey did it stink of them when coming to drink it. I went slightly more mental in my most recent one and put 50g each of cascade. Amarillo and simcoe in to dry hop. Again pellets. And again it smelt lovely!! I tend to use chinook a lot as my bittering hop of choice for pretty much all my American style ales these days. Call me boring. Should try something else but seems good for me. I also steep a lot of hops at the end of my boil. Drop temp from boil to 80 then lob a load in and allow to sit for 15/20 min before continuing with chilling. Just bought a hop rocket recently so going to give that a whirl soon.


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[samnorfolk]

I dry hopped my recent brew with 100g of pellets. And blimey did it stink of them when coming to drink it. I went slightly more mental in my most recent one and put 50g each of cascade. Amarillo and simcoe in to dry hop. Again pellets. And again it smelt lovely!! I tend to use chinook a lot as my bittering hop of choice for pretty much all my American style ales these days. Call me boring. Should try something else but seems good for me. I also steep a lot of hops at the end of my boil. Drop temp from boil to 80 then lob a load in and allow to sit for 15/20 min before continuing with chilling. Just bought a hop rocket recently so going to give that a whirl soon.


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I was wondering if i would be better just add hops for bitterness, adding my 20 mins hops and then letting cool to 80 and chucking in the other hops then a dry hop?

 

[DoctorMick]

I dry hopped my recent brew with 100g of pellets. And blimey did it stink of them when coming to drink it. I went slightly more mental in my most recent one and put 50g each of cascade. Amarillo and simcoe in to dry hop. Again pellets. And again it smelt lovely!! I tend to use chinook a lot as my bittering hop of choice for pretty much all my American style ales these days. Call me boring. Should try something else but seems good for me. I also steep a lot of hops at the end of my boil. Drop temp from boil to 80 then lob a load in and allow to sit for 15/20 min before continuing with chilling. Just bought a hop rocket recently so going to give that a whirl soon.


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Have you tried steeping without cooling to 80 and reducing the bittering additions? I'm going to try it for my next brew (mostly because the recipe I'm following says to) but it isn't something I've tried before.

 

[DoctorMick]

I was wondering if i would be better just add hops for bitterness, adding my 20 mins hops and then letting cool to 80 and chucking in the other hops then a dry hop?

It could be worth looking in to first wort hopping, if I remember rightly that will impart a lot of flavour and aroma alongside bitterness. I've only done it once and it was on my first full length AG brew, it turned out well but I made so many mistakes and I had nothing to compare it to so it's difficult to say how well it worked.