Do you get this?

[MashBag]

Just got this, in a batch.



This started perhaps 2 years ago. I think it is beer rock.

I started treating my water with 15 - 20ml of AMS. Problem solved. I thought. But it has reappeared.

Anyone any ideas. This beer is perhaps 4-6 weeks old, does not gush, clear. Is this calcium oxylate?

 

[MashBag]

@DocAnna could this be related to my wayward habits with protofloc?

 

[jambop]

Is it hard to remove? Could it be yeast sticking to the bottle for some reason? I have never seen anything like that before on my bottles.

 

[MashBag]

Very hard to remove. Proper pain.

The yeast sediment just washes away.

 

[Twostage]

I think we used to get something like that on some glasses after they'd been in the dishwasher. Some of them just turned cloudy over time and it wasn't possible to clean it off. It stopped when we got a new dishwasher and I decided to take notice of the lights that told me when it needed rinse aid and salt.

Doesn't help, though, sorry.

 

[jambop]

Very hard to remove. Proper pain.

The yeast sediment just washes away.

Never seen anything like that before at all! I see a light haze on my bottles after I wash them, I just put it down to carbonate residue after they have dried a bit. Then I got to thinking it was some sort of residue from the PURO OXI I use to clean my bottles, but I give them a really good rinse so it is a mystery to me what the hell it is but it is never there after I have drank the beer and given the bottle a rinse ?

 

[jambop]

Very hard to remove. Proper pain.

The yeast sediment just washes away.

When you have washed the bottle and the staining has been removed is there any difference to the surface of the glass, is it shiny ? I am wondering if it is a surface defect in the glass that traps sediment?

 

[MashBag]

Good thought, but my bottles are allsorts and it does affect a whole batch.

 

[MashBag]

I will rinse that bottle so you can see what's left.

 

[MashBag]

So this has now had 3 cold water rinses

 

[MashBag]

Very hard to remove. Proper pain.

The yeast sediment just washes away.

I got that wrong. This comes off with TFR. Previously it wouldn't.

So is this different?

 

[foxy]

Try a solution of vinegar and water, if it is a build-up of salts it will come off.

 

[Davegase]

What foxy said ! If that works, get into the habit of rinsing with starsan after cleaning, preferably mixed with RO water.

 

[MashBag]

Hmm. Interesting. Vinegar doesn't shift it. Caustic does.

Can we assume it's not calcium then and some sort of organic matter?

 

[DocAnna]

I’m fairly sure it will be an insoluble protein polyphenol chill haze which will occur through cold conditioning. Don’t use hot water to wash the bottles as it will stick it like glue to the bottle. Removal will either require an alkaline cleaner or soak in an acid - something like flat cola would also work. The alternative would potentially be excess kettle finings - a dose of 50mg/l is sufficient so for a 30 litre boil 0.15g is enough.

Ok why are you getting this and why is it settling so consistently….that’s the more puzzling question. Can you say how long you are conditioning- and if you do so in bulk and then bottle, or bottle from the fermenter directly? It will be pH dependent, I think pH 4 is maximal but that’s from memory without going through my notes. Bulk conditioning before bottling would likely avoid the problem.

 

[MashBag]

Excess kettle finings really was a factor.

Your analysis of conditioning is also spot on, bottled warm on day 7 typically. Kept at 20c for another 7 days and then stored at 10c typically.

Caustic did remove.

I will be bottling a batch with reduced protofloc this week. Let's see.

Thank you.

 

[clib]

Could be this...

https://www.beerlab.co.za/blogs/news/the-removal-and-prevention-of-beer-stone

 

[MashBag]

Could be this...

https://www.beerlab.co.za/blogs/news/the-removal-and-prevention-of-beer-stone

I had beer stone. It is attributed to very hard water areas.That is cured now with water treatment. It really is a bugger to clean.
The dairy industry have the same issue (with calcium oxylate) and "milk stone" remover is brilliant. Acid not so. I really thought I was going to have to ditch bottles at one point.

That article refers to beer stone being a compound of protein and calcium. I have removed the calcium element (with water treatment). Is the the other (the protein) - same issue just less sticky now

Thank you

 

[MashBag]

For the record this didn't present as a beer quality fault, just unsightly.

But it will be interesting to see if beer quality improves.

 

[Nucbrewer]

I used Enzybrew10 to clean my fermenters this time around and it worked really well, maybe that will work on this bottle haze.