Do I need bottling yeast?

[Monkhouse]

Hi people, I’ve currently got a Belgian quad in my fv, it’s been in there a week so far and has gone from 1.096 down to 1.016 in this time giving me an abv of around 10.5%
I used 3 packs of mangrove jacks m41 to ferment 27litres at 26.5c, the airlock is still bubbling away and from previous brews using this amazing yeast im expecting that gravity to drop further in the next week or so. My question is do I need to add a sachet of CBC-1 bottling yeast when I do bottle it? The last brew I did was a Belgian golden strong ale that came out at 9.3% and I didn’t bother using bottling yeast and within a week it was pretty spritely and lively.
So, do I just let the M41 carry on its job and hope that it will eat up the priming sugar even in an 11%+ abv environment? Or do I kill off the m41 with the CBC-1 yeast and hope I get the correct level of carbonation I desire for the quad?
Below is a screenshot of Brewfather.
Cheers

 

[Rwilts]

In no way an expert with high gravity brews but I would say no need.... waits to be contradicted

 

[Agentgonzo]

No need for extra yeast. The stuff still in the beer is good enough

 

[Sadfield]

Sure, there'll be enough yeast there to carbonate the beer. However, if you already have the CBC-1, then use some of that. It'll give a more stable carbonation, body and flavour, if you intend keep the beer, by inhibiting the M41 from slowly eating through maltotriose. It'll also flocculate better, as M41 doesn't flocculate well.

Do you need a bottling yeast? No, but it is the best tool for the job.

Dosage is a pitch rate of 10g/hL - 0.1g/L, so you won't need the whole packet.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/lalbrew-cbc-1/

 

[Monkhouse]

Sure, there'll be enough yeast there to carbonate the beer. However, if you already have the CBC-1, then use some of that. It'll give a more stable carbonation, body and flavour, if you intend keep the beer, by inhibiting the M41 from slowly eating through maltotriose. It'll also flocculate better, as M41 doesn't flocculate well.

Do you need a bottling yeast? No, but it is the best tool for the job.

Dosage is a pitch rate of 10g/hL - 0.1g/L, so you won't need the whole packet.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/lalbrew-cbc-1/

Yeah I’ll be storing this one long-term 6 months at the very least. Am I ok to just lob the whole pack in anyway? (rehydrated of course) I don’t like keeping yeast once it’s been opened.

 

[Sadfield]

I guess so, a bit of a waste though.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

You'll probably end up with more sediment in the bottles you could just dump the rest in one bottle and then that would be your culture bottle next time you needed some bottling yeast.

 

[Monkhouse]

I guess so, a bit of a waste though.

I’m not overly bothered by wasting half a pack, it’s only a fiver and I won’t be doing a super strong ale that I’m going to store long term like this anytime soon so I won’t really have a need for a bottling yeast. All my other beers I’ve just used whatever yeast was left in the beer to do the job but these beers are generally all gone within a few months.

 

[chthon]

My last tripel with M41 yeast, I decided to skip the bottling yeast. Had no problems, even though the ABV before bottling was already 9,8% and after bottling would reach 10,3%. No problems, on pressure at 14 days .Might have had a bit of luck with the weather which brought the average temperature in the room where it conditioned around 23° C.

 

[Monkhouse]

M41 is an absolute monster, I’ve never known a yeast like it, it’s now down to 1.008 and I’m hoping it’s stopped now to be honest! This quad will be 11.6%abv!! And I’ve got 50 pints of it I could make them into shandy’s and they’d still be 6% and get me smashed lol

 

[chthon]

M41 is an absolute monster, I’ve never known a yeast like it, it’s now down to 1.008 and I’m hoping it’s stopped now to be honest! This quad will be 11.6%abv!! And I’ve got 50 pints of it I could make them into shandy’s and they’d still be 6% and get me smashed lol

Mine went to 1.000, but I think there were reasons for that:

• Only a small amount of special malts
• I mashed in total around 2 hrs, 1hr beta, and 1hr alpha.

Normally, in most of my brews, I get an attenuation of 93% with the M41:

 

[Monkhouse]

How was it? I mean I know Belgians in general are supposed to be highly attenuated but 100%?!

 

[Sadfield]

You could try stopping it with some of that bottling yeast.

This pdf article suggests that killer yeasts can be used to control or prevent hyper attenuation from diastatic yeasts.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECA0QBg&usg=AOvVaw2raKLJbb2rmOtvLHEj16Q2

 

[Monkhouse]

You could try stopping it with some of that bottling yeast.

This pdf article suggests that killer yeasts can be used to control or prevent hyper attenuation from diastatic yeasts.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECA0QBg&usg=AOvVaw2raKLJbb2rmOtvLHEj16Q2

Good call, I’ll keep a close eye on it and play it by ear. It’s been in fv 10 days now, I usually end up bottling on day 14 but I’ll see how clear it gets in the fv by day 14. I’ve only just dropped the temp from 27c down to 22c so hopefully the haze will start to drop out a bit soon.

 

[Monkhouse]

Mine went to 1.000, but I think there were reasons for that:

• Only a small amount of special malts
• I mashed in total around 2 hrs, 1hr beta, and 1hr alpha.

Normally, in most of my brews, I get an attenuation of 93% with the M41:

View attachment 90310

This quad was an overnight mash lol

 

[Monkhouse]

Ok this quad is now starting to worry me a little. It’s now at 1.004 giving an abv of 12.1%. It’s also still hazy indicating to me the yeast is still in suspension and not looking like it’s going to actually drop any time soon. I’ve got a pack of this cbc1 bottling yeast that I’m now starting to think I should put some in the fv to start dropping out the m41 yeast.
What do I do? I wanted to use the cbc1 for bottling so if I measure out some of the pack and tip it into the fv will the remainder of the pack be ok (sanitary) just folded over and popped back in the fridge? Would the high abv of this quad kill off any nasties that could get into the open yeast pack?
Would I still need to use the remainder of the pack for bottling?
Will the quad taste like rocket fuel?? I know Belgians are supposed to finish quite dry but I’ve never seen on any other recipes a quad finishing this low before!

Let me know your thoughts, cheers

Dave

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Is that a floating gravity measure or a sample in refractometer corrected or hydrometer?

 

[chthon]

Ok this quad is now starting to worry me a little. It’s now at 1.004 giving an abv of 12.1%. It’s also still hazy indicating to me the yeast is still in suspension and not looking like it’s going to actually drop any time soon. I’ve got a pack of this cbc1 bottling yeast that I’m now starting to think I should put some in the fv to start dropping out the m41 yeast.
What do I do? I wanted to use the cbc1 for bottling so if I measure out some of the pack and tip it into the fv will the remainder of the pack be ok (sanitary) just folded over and popped back in the fridge? Would the high abv of this quad kill off any nasties that could get into the open yeast pack?
Would I still need to use the remainder of the pack for bottling?
Will the quad taste like rocket fuel?? I know Belgians are supposed to finish quite dry but I’ve never seen on any other recipes a quad finishing this low before!

Let me know your thoughts, cheers

Dave

When did your fermentation start? In which vessel is it now? if you have a separate vessel, or a DJ, I suggest to move this over from the main fermentation into a secondary vessel, and give it another couple of weeks before bottling.

 

[Monkhouse]

Is that a floating gravity measure or a sample in refractometer corrected or hydrometer?

I put the hydrometer in the fv about a week in, my fv is a fermentasaurus so I can see through to get accurate readings

 

[Monkhouse]

When did your fermentation start? In which vessel is it now? if you have a separate vessel, or a DJ, I suggest to move this over from the main fermentation into a secondary vessel, and give it another couple of weeks before bottling

Fermentation started approximately 2 weeks ago tomorrow. Haven’t got another vessel unfortunately. I usually leave it a couple of weeks then I do a closed transfer using Sodastream gas and use a bottling gun to fill each bottle.
I’ve never had need to take any beer off the yeast before. But usually by now the beer would have started to clear from the top downwards.