Do I need a starter for high OG wort?

[WelshPaul]

I'm planning a brew day for this weekend using Wyeast 3787 yeast. The instructions on the packet advise that despite being able to tolerate high alcohol brews, it should be pitched into wort no stronger than 1060.
Since my planned OG is around 1085-1090, can I still pitch the yeast in directly or will I need to make a starter of approximately 1020 and leave it for 24 hours beforehand?

 

[robsan77]

I'm not sure the exact measurement but you definitely need to pitch more than a single pack. I'd pitch double. Based on 1 pack being ideal for a 1040 wort. X2 = 1080.

 

[robsan77]

Mr malty.com will probably have the answers.

 

[WelshPaul]

The problem is that I only have a single packet. I'm aiming for a 20 litre brew and I've seen that a number of people on other sites have used this yeast at high gravities with a starter so I may just do that to be on the safe side:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/wyeast- ... low-49306/

 

[periolus]

Hi!

Just looking for a bit of advice and probably reassurance! I did a brew yesterday and pitched Irish Ale yeast (WLP004) that I had ramped up using a starter. The OG is approx. 1060.

I had cold-steeped some grains but stupidly forgot to add the strained liquid to the boil, so had to boil on the stove after I had chilled the wort and add to the FV first. My STC told me the temp was about 23.5C, but having fiddled with it I had accidentally managed to add a 3 degree correction so the wort was actually at 26.5C. I took my starter at 18C which I popped into a water bath for a minute or two which might have added a degree or so, and then pitched. I only realised 10 mins later it was so damn hot in the FV.

I left outside until it hit 24C and then put it in my brew fridge. That was at midnight! At 5am it was 18C and now holding steady. Will my yeast mostly have withstood the shock do you reckon? If you sort it out fairly quickly, do they cope?

What do you reckon - I really hope it turns out alright as I put lots of effort into this brew!

 

[robsan77]

I think you'll need about 4 litres with 400g dme for 2 days, then chill the yeast out over 2 days and remove the starter wort to pitch just the yeast.

 

[robsan77]

Hi!

Just looking for a bit of advice and probably reassurance! I did a brew yesterday and pitched Irish Ale yeast (WLP004) that I had ramped up using a starter. The OG is approx. 1060.

I had cold-steeped some grains but stupidly forgot to add the strained liquid to the boil, so had to boil on the stove after I had chilled the wort and add to the FV first. My STC told me the temp was about 23.5C, but having fiddled with it I had accidentally managed to add a 3 degree correction so the wort was actually at 26.5C. I took my starter at 18C which I popped into a water bath for a minute or two which might have added a degree or so, and then pitched. I only realised 10 mins later it was so damn hot in the FV.

I left outside until it hit 24C and then put it in my brew fridge. That was at midnight! At 5am it was 18C and now holding steady. Will my yeast mostly have withstood the shock do you reckon? If you sort it out fairly quickly, do they cope?

What do you reckon - I really hope it turns out alright as I put lots of effort into this brew!

Not ideal but I'm sure you will get drinkable beer. The shock risk can make the yeast slow to start hence possible infection in the lag time but can cause the yeast to create mutations which could increase the ester profile and reduce flocculation.

 

[WelshPaul]

I think you'll need about 4 litres with 400g dme for 2 days, then chill the yeast out over 2 days and remove the starter wort to pitch just the yeast.

Sorry to ask again, but just for clarification, I'd need to let the yeasties do their thing with the DME for 48 hours, chill the whole lot in the fridge to allow them to settle to the bottom, decant the wort and then allow the yeast to warm up to room temperature before pitching, correct?

 

[periolus]

Reading this thread further, maybe I didn't do mine well. I added 100g DME to 1L water and pitched the White Labs yeast into it. I swirled round every time I passed it for the first day to keep oxygen levels up. Then I left it for 3 days just at room temp. There was a lovely creamy layer at the bottom by then.

When I pitched to the wort last night, I just poured off the DME solution and added a bit of cooled, boiled (chlorine removed with campden) to it, swirled it all up and poured into the FV. Bearing in mind my cock up with pitching temperature, does that make things worse or did I do okay with the starter?

I'm sure it will all be okay in the end :)

 

[robsan77]

Reading this thread further, maybe I didn't do mine well. I added 100g DME to 1L water and pitched the White Labs yeast into it. I swirled round every time I passed it for the first day to keep oxygen levels up. Then I left it for 3 days just at room temp. There was a lovely creamy layer at the bottom by then.

When I pitched to the wort last night, I just poured off the DME solution and added a bit of cooled, boiled (chlorine removed with campden) to it, swirled it all up and poured into the FV. Bearing in mind my cock up with pitching temperature, does that make things worse or did I do okay with the starter?

I'm sure it will all be okay in the end :)

That'll be fine. But 200 in 2 litres is better. You will also have poured away healthy yeast in suspension hence chilling to drop them.
Another method if its a small starter is just pour the whole lot in after 2 days instead. Not ideal really with 4 litres tho.

 

[robsan77]

I think you'll need about 4 litres with 400g dme for 2 days, then chill the yeast out over 2 days and remove the starter wort to pitch just the yeast.

Sorry to ask again, but just for clarification, I'd need to let the yeasties do their thing with the DME for 48 hours, chill the whole lot in the fridge to allow them to settle to the bottom, decant the wort and then allow the yeast to warm up to room temperature before pitching, correct?

Yep. 48 hrs is all you need for the growth phase. Next time, add a little wort back to the yeast before pitching about 2 or 3 times so that it slowly climatizes to the wort temp. Then pitch.

 

[WelshPaul]

Ah yes, I have to do the same when adding a new fish into the aquarium.






Although by no means should you ever add a new fish to your wort!

 

[fbsf]

Pickled Herrings?

 

[kev]

My process is to take a vial (or a split vial, etc) and create a starter with 200g DME to 2L water. I leave that for 48 hours minimum on my stirplate.

I then let it settle out. When I'm brewing I take a sample of wort 10 mins into the boil and let it cool. I then pour of the wort/beer from above the yeast and put the cooled wort on top.

Within 10 mins it's frothing like f*ck and ready to go. That's been my method for a while now and I can't see myself changing as it's so easy & effective.

Your cutting it fine if you're brewing on Sat but if you get your finger out it'll be cool for Sunday.

K

 

[WelshPaul]

I'll be brewing on Sunday and the DME starter was made up yesterday and the yeast pitched into it. I'll use your method of taking a small sample from the boil as that sounds like a nice and simple way to get things going.

 

[kev]

Just keep things clean/sterile and cool it right down as it'll be roasting hot.

Check this out :

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=35138

I used my usual technique and within 10 mins it was like a volcano

K