DIY prosecco

[tonyhibbett]

Unlike Champagne, prosecco is not bottle fermented but uses the tank method, like priming beer but under higher pressure (60 psi). This cuts out the tricky business of disgorging yeast from bottles. Instead, the sparkling wine, chilled, is dispensed directly from the tank from a tap into the bottles, with a tube reaching down to the bottom to reduce loss of gas. The bottles are then corked and wired down in the usual way.
I have ordered a cornelius keg and a high pressure dispenser. The keg holds 9 litres, so I presume I would have to prepare somewhat less than 2 gallons of wine for secondary fermentation.. The only problem is that when ready, the wine must be chilled, so I guess I'd have to leave the keg out on a cold night beforehand.
Has anyone tried this?

 

[The Baron]

I have done the first half Tony. I put 20 ltres of white wine in a corny and carbed it up but not as high as 60psi probably around half that pressure and it does work but as you said it would really need more pressure than I used as it was not as sparkly as the commercial stuff but I have never bottles it off the corny

 

[tonyhibbett]

Thanks for that. However, what I am planning is tank secondary fermentation, not forced carbonation.
First mistake is that it holds 19 not 9 litres. So I guess the approach would be to brew a 30 bottle chardonnay kit short at 21 litres, giving me 19 litres of wine, using the finings but omitting the stabiliser. Then pitch in yeast plus 11g sugar per litre, say 200 g. in all. I've used this rate before to produce 40 psi in bottle, in wine at sg 995. Once fermentation has restarted, add to the keg, leave warm for a week then leave cool for a few weeks, then bottle.
Previous attempts at bottle fermentation have produced some disappointing results after maturation. I recently opened a 2016. When I removed the foil, I found white deposits, suggesting some leakage of gas. Sure enough, when removing the plastic stopper there was just a faint hiss. The wine was sparkling, but only just. Clearly the plastic stoppers are only suitable for short term storage, so I have ordered some genuine cork ones. These come slightly tapered so can be easily inserted with a mallet. They are of course more expensive than plastic ones, so I have ordered a 29 mm crown capper plus caps. These fit all Champagne and most other sparkling wine bottles.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Next mistake is that 11g of sugar was per bottle, not litre, so the total priming sugar should be 250g. Ideally, I would like a pressure gauge. As I understand it, a corny can be fitted with 2 - one to regulate pressure in and the other pressure out.
In my case I don't need to regulate pressure in, but adjusting the pressure out could be useful if I get too much foaming filling the bottles.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Cleared up one issue. The dual gauge on the input side tells you how much is left in the gas tank on 1 dial and the input pressure on the other dial, which can be adjusted to suit, typically for beer at around 15 psi. What I need is an in line pressure gauge on the outlet side. Apparently 60 psi is enough to drive all of the wine from the keg. We shall see.

 

[HoppyTommy]

I'm going to try carbonating some wine in a normal PET 1 litre bottle. I've just bought a cheap carbonation cap off eBay that fits on to my CO2 line. I've read above that it needs to be about 60 psi to replicate the fizz in shop bought prosecco.

Any one got any idea what pressure a PET bottle would hold before it goes boom? I've got thick gloves and a face shield (tree felling) I could wear whilst finding out.

 

[IainM]

The pressure required to reach a particular level of carbonation is strongly dependent on temperature. My understanding is that prosecco and other sparkling wines have around 6, perhaps 6.5 volumes of CO2. 60psi will equilibrate there at 10C, but at 5C you will end up with 7 volumes of CO2. At that level, if the bottle were to reach room temperature or above then the pressure would be higher than most champagne bottles are rated for. It would probably be fine, because they are overengineered. Nevertheless, I strongly recommend using a calculator to set the pressure on the regulator to give you your target carbonation level e.g.: https://www.morebeer.com/content/keg_carbonation_calculator

 

[HoppyTommy]

The pressure required to reach a particular level of carbonation is strongly dependent on temperature. My understanding is that prosecco and other sparkling wines have around 6, perhaps 6.5 volumes of CO2. 60psi will equilibrate there at 10C, but at 5C you will end up with 7 volumes of CO2. At that level, if the bottle were to reach room temperature or above then the pressure would be higher than most champagne bottles are rated for. It would probably be fine, because they are overengineered. Nevertheless, I strongly recommend using a calculator to set the pressure on the regulator to give you your target carbonation level e.g.: https://www.morebeer.com/content/keg_carbonation_calculator

Cheers for that. It appears to get 6 times I only need to go for 50 psi at 4 degrees. I've read online coke bottles easily put up with 80 psi if not far higher.

 

[Honk]

Cleared up one issue. The dual gauge on the input side tells you how much is left in the gas tank on 1 dial and the input pressure on the other dial, which can be adjusted to suit, typically for beer at around 15 psi. What I need is an in line pressure gauge on the outlet side. Apparently 60 psi is enough to drive all of the wine from the keg. We shall see.

What your looking for i believe is called a spunding valve, although I'm not sure you will find one rated at 60psi or indeed not sure a corny keg is rated that high and if you do get it that high serving might be difficult.
I've used a carbonation cap to carbonate coke bottles of white wine which worked well and if you have a dedicated corny keg then force carbonation would be much easier than natural carbonation. (Sounds like you may be hoping to avoid this by priming enough to dispense the whole keg in one go?)

 

[Honk]

Whilst on the subject anyone know what the correct base wine would be in a prosecco? Someone mentioned Chardonnay above.

 

[HoppyTommy]

Whilst on the subject anyone know what the correct base wine would be in a prosecco? Someone mentioned Chardonnay above.

Not sure. But a friend bought me a lovely fizzy sauvignon blanc that I'm going to try and replicate.

Apparently the grape varieties for champagne are either chardonnay or pinot noir / meunier.

 

[tonyhibbett]

I saw a video of someone trying this and blowing out the the bottom of the pet bottle at 40 psi because that bottle wasn't new or designed to take it. A 2 litre pet bottle for coke can take 100 psi max when new, so it can withstand transportation and temperature fluctuation stress. Once opened, the cap cannot retain the gas for very long. You can buy new pet bottles for storing primed beer.
Prosecco is not carbonated but tank fermented and left to mature on the yeast. The co2 cannot escape so is gradually absorbed in the wine over a period of time. Since liquid cannot be compressed, all of the pressure is in the airspace where the unabsorbed co2 is confined as gas. Cold water can absorb about 1 g of co2 before becoming saturated. Due to the presence of alcohol, residual sugar and other constituents, wine can absorb far less co2.
Chilled Prosecco may leave the tank under 60 psi of pressure but once bottled, the pressure will be significantly less because gas is lost during the transfer process.
Carbonation works best if the co2 is introduced at a slow and steady pace at a low temperature and left for about a week.
It is worth noting that prosecco is made from grapes which make a poor quality, somewhat acidic white wine, tarted up with fizz. Indeed, such is the origin of Champagne.
Any dull wine can be enhanced with a bit of carbonated fizz at around 10-15 psi, but it can taste even worse if allowed to go flat.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Unless you grow your own, you won't get a mix of 50% chardonnay, 25% pinot noir and 25% meunier. Kits for chardonnay are readily available, which would give you a blanc de blanc version of champagne.

 

[tonyhibbett]

The keg safety valve releases pressure at 130 psi, so 60 psi should be fine. It seems that prosecco is initially tank fermented then transferred via a filter to a second tank, where the priming and secondary fermentation takes place. Bottling takes place at a very low temperature to minimise loss of gas.
Instead of a tank, I will use a standard fermenting bin for the first stage. After fining, which will eliminate the need for filtering, I will save some of the yeast sediment for the priming stage rather than fresh yeast, as it will have developed alcohol tolerance and will start working straight away on the wine and priming sugar transferred to the keg.

 

[IainM]

Can't you just prime with the right amount of sugar to give the amount of fizz you want? Going back to your earlier post about 60 psi being enough to dispense. That will be more than enough, and indeed too high unless you have a very long length of line between the keg and the bottle, or a very small diameter line. If you just use something like a meter of 3/16" tubing, at 60 psi it will be so turbulent that it would give you a bottle of foam that settles into flat prosecco. You could vent the pressure down to ~5 psi for bottle filling, but you would need a CO2 source to keep it there while the prosecco level in the keg drops. Otherwise, you may be able to dispense all of it with the CO2 from secondary fermentation if you bottle with a flow control faucet, adjusting the flow control as the keg empties. If you are concerned about losing too much carbonation, you might want to look at a counterpressure filler or a bottling gun with counterpressure attachment. That way you can pre-pressurise the bottle before filling and fill at high pressure. Chilling the bottles beforehand also reduces foaming.

 

[Clint]

Following this just out of curiosity...can it be gassed in a Cornie with nitrogen or a mix?

 

[tonyhibbett]

Thanks. I will be using the right rate of sugar for bottle priming sparkling wine. I have ordered a beer line with 50 cm of 6.5 mm tubing and trigger faucet, which will give me manual flow control. I will fit a length of tube to the end so that the bottle fills from the bottom to reduce foaming.
I'd like to get the temperature of the keg down to below zero before bottling for optimum gas retention in the wine, but my fridge will only go down to 5c. Chilling the bottles does help, but I will need about 24 bottles and they don't stay chilled for long so I would have to work fast!

 

[tonyhibbett]

Following this just out of curiosity...can it be gassed in a Cornie with nitrogen or a mix?

You can get nitrogen cartridges which is the preferred gas for stout, but at this stage I am not considering carbonation.

 

[tonyhibbett]

The corny (and beer line) has just arrived. It's a cheap used one and is already pressurised, so must be ok. There is nothing to indicate which is the in and out valve, but I have attached the beer line and it works. A 10 mm x 28 cm tube fits snugly over the tap. All I need now is 25 champagne bottles, the crown capper, the 29 mm caps and 17 litres of wine!

 

[Drunkula]

Try one bottle of it carbonated first. Some wine is absolutely disgusting when it's carbonated.