Diacetyl issue with pilsner brew

[timtoos]

Hu guys,

I wonder if anyone could help/advise and hopefully correct a issue (Im sure) I have with a pilsner I brewed back in February this year.

Heres a run down of what I did, brew day, ingredients, temperatures etc.

12/2/17
Mash schedule:
Grains: Pilsner malt (no sparge). I admit the grain was pre crushed and older then 12 months. It was still in its sealed bags. It tasted ok.
52C for 20 mins
61C for 35 mins
69C for 35 mins
78C for 10 mins

Boiled for 60 mins. OG 1.048
Hopped with Saaz hops at usual times to give IBU of 27.

My brewing liquor is very very soft so only calcium chloride added to give 40ppm. Mash pH was 5.6 (low resolution pH probe used). No acids added - learning curve here.

Wort was quite hazy even though whirlfloc was used in boil.

3 x 11.5g 34/70 saflager yeast packs rehydrated in 300ml of water @ 24C. Added to cooled wort @ 13.1C

Conical FV setpoint was 13.2C and this was maintained well.

22/2/17
Gravity check, FG 1.012
Diacetyl rest started - temperature SP 16.4C

25/2/17
Diacetyl rest completed. Yeast removed from conical cone and crash cooled fermenter to 6.5C. Transferred straight to corny keg and left outside. It was cold (February) outside so temperature in keg was low.

14/3/17
Sample beer drawn off to test carbonation. Beer was very cloudy. Added 220ml of isinglass to help clear.

18/3/17
Keg to keg gas transfer to leave sediment in primary keg and get beer from off the finings.

9/4/17
Bottled using beer gun.
Rapidly cooled a few bottles in freezer to taste. Diacetyl seemed present on the nose and taste.

Any ideas why I have this diacetyl issue and what I can do to get rid/lower? I have put the bottles in the attic in the hope that increased temperature may cause any yeast which may be present to do something.

I think I used enough yeast (checked on MrMalty and that advised 3 packs), I fermented at a reasonable lager temperature and I completed a diacetyl rest.

Any advice is great

 

[chewie]

DMS maybe still present with only a 60 minute boil perhaps? Pils malt is usually recommended being boiled for 90 mins.

 

[timtoos]

Thanks Chewie. Wish I knew this before I brewed up lol. Live and learn I suppose.

Do you know if I can do anything to reduce get rid of it now or am I stuck?

 

[Grizzly299]

Are you sure its diacetyl and not DMS? You only did a 60 mins boil with what looks like a 100% Pils grain bill.

 

[timtoos]

Its got a buttery sweet taste and wiff - almost sickly.

 

[timtoos]

Should pilsner malts always have a 90 minute boil?

 

[chewie]

Take a read thru that http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

 

[Grizzly299]

Usually I would suggest that it could be Caramalt of some discription, as people can get the two confused. However your 60 min boil may well indicate that you have a DMS problem. rather than diacetyl.

Diacetyl is often described as buttered popcorn, DMS is also described as creamed corn. So there is also a potential crossover in perception.

 

[Pheqit]

I don`t have enough experience with lager or pils but I have had a few goes.

Firstly it`s only 2months/just under 7 weeks since you brewed it, I think it takes a lot longer to clean up and pilsner/lager malts do give off a nasty vegetal/poo odour sometimes during and after fermenting/conditioning.

Secondly 60mins boil... not sure, that`s all I do but then I`m no chill and no probs. Don`t think that`s the problem.

Thirdly 12month old crushed grain and how old was it when you bought it?

Conclusion: Needs another month or two chilled/lagered. I don`t know what buttered popcorn beer tastes like and hope I never do.

I hope it works out and cleans up for you. Try it again in a months time, see if it`s any better. Best of luck!

 

[serum]

If you want to taste Diacetyl buy a bottle of Doom Bar or Speckled Hen. It's very filling tasting and buttery. You'd be able to tell what it is.

I sometimes get it when I bottle condition for some reason but it goes away after two weeks with an ale yeast. I've got no idea why but it sounds like you've not done that in any event.

Did you taste the beer after the Diacetyl rest to make sure it was all gone?

 

[BeerCat]

First batch of Lager I did was like yours. I did not even do a rest but the beer was really good after a year. Clean. I now do a rest at 18c for 3 days and then cold crash as close to zero as I can before fining.
I always boil around 90mins as well. Drinking a Lager straight from the airing cupboard and it's as clean as a whistle. Less than 2 months old.