Diabetic home brewer.

[ARTYCHOKE]

Hi Guys
I've brewed a lot of kits and was gearing up to start full mash brewing when devasted by various life calamities. Long story much shortened: I emerged a diabetic ! BANG..... I assume my days of seeking to brew & drink the ultimate beer must be severely hampered now but in truth, I don't know. I was never a big drinker, not even a regular one. I simply enjoy good flavours. Anyway, in seeking out in dire hope, some kind of healthy solution - as in solving a problem, I came across agave nectar. Before I reinvent the wheel, has anyone had any success with the stuff ? I favour the malty styles, particularly Porters if than gives any clues. Many thanks.

 

[-Bezza-]

Welcome.

First post at 3am!?

There are a few diabetics around here who can probably give you a few hints on how to brew things that work a little better for you.

 

[Dutto]

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm not diabetic myself, but I've brewed for a diabetic mate who loved lagers.

As far as I am aware, being a diabetic means that all you have to do is to make low ABV brews and ensure that as many of the fermentable sugars as possible have been turned into alcohol. Low ABV Lagers are great for this.

I would like to point out that my mate Mike died last September - but not as a result of his diabetes! I give you two quotes from his 40 years of coping with the problem:

1. "I've never abused my body and I've always been careful with regard to being a diabetic." This is from the man who used to inject himself with insulin at the back of the pub whilst I went over to the bar to get us another couple of pints.
2. "I've never bothered about my diabetes. I know when a coma is imminent and I just eat or drink something." Which is probably why the District Nurse nearly had kittens trying to level out his insulin dose when he became bed-ridden.

Diabetes is truly a terrible ailment but my mate lived a full life and never let it stop him enjoying himself.

RIP Mike - a friend for over 60 years who is sorely missed.

 

[Drunkula]

Agave nectar is basically pure fructose, and it'll ferment out to alcohol in the same way as any simple sugar.

The only difference when eating it normally is that it gets processed by the liver in the same way alcohol does so doesn't cause an insulin spike as dramatically as sucrose and dextrose. It's really going to be no benefit for brewing.

When I see agave syrup touted as a healthy alternative to sugar it gets me fuming.

 

[An Ankoù]

If the question is about making decent beer with little or no residual sugars, you could try adding amyloglucosidase 300, available from The Malt Miller. Used according to the instructions it should make just about all the carbohydrate content available for fermentation leaving a highly attenuated beer with little body. The latter will need to be addressed, perhaps by adding oat flakes to some styles. Or perhaps some of the "hop bomb" beers don't need much body.
In any case I used this to make a stout and a lager when I was trying to lose a ton or two with a very low carb diet. It gave me something to drink, but it wasn't the best beer I've ever tasted.

 

[stz]

I'm not a diabetic and don't claim to fully understand the relationship between alcohol and diabetes. Anecdotally diabetic friends of mine drink quite normally, though none of them get silly anymore they will session 3-5 pints when on it. They prefer dry and fully attenuated drinks. Not sweet stuff. Lager, spirits, bone dry white wine.

Beer can be attenuated high, low and somewhere in the middle. A lot of this is style dependent/appropriate. You might find the carbohydrate content in beers which have moderate or low attenuation makes it harder to control your blood sugar and this might mean you have to drink a lot less or a lot slower. Beers which are almost completely attenuated will have very few residual carbohydrates which might make it easier to indulge. Depending on your preference for certain styles this may mean you have to make some changes and/or accept some compromises in the search for perfection.

Degree of attenuation is dependent on grain variety, mash profile and yeast selection. As said above process enzymes can be used to ensure full and complete conversion. These brews can be ... in my experience very cheap to make as you don't need a lot of points up front as you've none left at the back. If you wanted a 4% beer you'll only want 31 to start which is what ... 2.6kg of malt for 20L @ 79% efficiency? On the downside they taste like what they are, cheap, thin, suited to making lager or high alcohol products. If you push the abv up and try to get more interesting ... I've made brut IPAs a few times and they can start to taste like they are made of almost pure sugar. Rocket fuel. The last one I did I think I used a touch more of the enzyme than recommended and this sugar twang was worse than in the previous one, but both still finished below 0.

Surprisingly though a lot of bigger (but not massive) breweries use these sorts of enzymes in making beer that you wouldn't expect to find high attenuation as a goal. They might do this because it allows them to use grist compositions which wouldn't normally work ... to save time in the mash tun, to improve run off, for cost and/or process reasons and/or to ensure a consistent final gravity. From the perspective of big breweries dextrines are the enemy of sessionability and I was very surprised to see the actual final gravity of a lot of 'classic' brews. Best bitters, stouts, porters etc, all at all 1.004 or thereabout. It makes them cheaper to make and easier to neck. The trick here is to use only enough of it to give an outcome somewhere in the middle. There are also a few different types, alpha and ß-amylase, alpha and ß-glucanase, there are also propitiatory and in house blends. They can be used at different points with different outcomes in different amounts for different times. It is a skill and discipline in itself to get a good outcome.

I've also seen brewers of big imperial stouts etc use them with a steady hand to get them to finish lower, but not too low. I've not got enough knowledge or experience ... like I said my efforts get a bit like rocket fuel, but can appreciate brewing and drinking something 10% that didn't have to start at 1.110 to finish at 1.033!

 

[MyQul]

The malty styles like porter are probably the worst style if your diabetic. As others have said beers with very low FG would be best for you and as others have also mentioned use enzymes to crank the final gravity down to 1.000. One such style is a newish style called Brut IPA. Similar to an IPA but using enzymes to get the OG down to 1.000 making it quite dry and crisp (and very pale lager like)

https://www.brewersjournal.info/what-is-brut-ipa-and-how-do-you-brew-one/

 

[Clint]

Could you brew a proven recipe you like at say 10litres,4%,then just double the fv volume?

 

[Drunkula]

The brut ipa method is being used to make a new era of low calorie beers like Dogfish Head's Slightly Malty IPA.

 

[An Ankoù]

The malty styles like porter are probably the worst style if your diabetic. As others have said beers with very low FG would be best for you and as others have also mentioned use enzymes to crank the final gravity down to 1.000. One such style is a newish style called Brut IPA. Similar to an IPA but using enzymes to get the OG down to 1.000 making it quite dry and crisp (and very pale lager like)

https://www.brewersjournal.info/what-is-brut-ipa-and-how-do-you-brew-one/

That's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I've get everything required so I think a half-batch experiment is called for.

 

[ARTYCHOKE]

Thanks Guys.

I don't pretend to understand all the technicalities as yet but will work on that. Thankfully, I am neither a big drinker nor even a regular drinker anyway. However, I do thoroughly enjoy a 'wholesome flavoured' pint.

Many years ago, when living & working in the East & South East UK, I loved Norwich Castle Bitter. It seemed fickle though to how it was kept & served. Of course, it vanished off the scene as many others did. Firkin Breweries Dogbolter too though for a while, I was able to buy & make their kits. Superb results too. I have since moved yet again and obtained some all grain recipes I'm keen to try once my "micro-micro brewery" is up & running.

Cheers

 

[Drunkula]

Firkin Breweries Dogbolter

Jesus, I've got about 15 Dogbolter shirts. We used to do the Dogbolter challenge all the time. I think it was 5 pints in an hour originally but then went to 6 and eventually 7 - I think the 7 was the pub putting it up just for us. Somebody I knew did the 6 pints in 16 minutes and everyone expected me to beat it - nah, never been competative.

Dogbolter was a right thick old pint.

 

[An Ankoù]

Jesus, I've got about 15 Dogbolter shirts. We used to do the Dogbolter challenge all the time. I think it was 5 pints in an hour originally but then went to 6 and eventually 7 - I think the 7 was the pub putting it up just for us. Somebody I knew did the 6 pints in 16 minutes and everyone expected me to beat it - nah, never been competative.

Dogbolter was a right thick old pint.

I used to love Dogbolter, and Ringwood Old Thumper before they changed the recipe in the eighties.

 

[MyQul]

@ARTYCHOKE may help as it calculates the carbs in a beer

http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/carb-cal.shtml

I am making a low carb brut ipa style today. I'm not diabetic but follow a low low sugar/carb diet for my health now

 

[Braufather]

Just bumping this to see if anyone has a tried and trusted brut IPA recipe no stronger than 4.5% as I’m going low carb again.

 

[Alan_Reginato]

Search for low alcohol, low carb beer. And if you brew something nice, share with us!

The combination of Munich malt, roasted stuff, saison yeast and a lot of late hops should do the trick, for a light, but flavoured beer.

 

[Dutto]

Just bumping this to see if anyone has a tried and trusted brut IPA recipe no stronger than 4.5% as I’m going low carb again.

Very few of my own brews exceed the 4.5% ABV, mainly because I brew kits and then halve the DME to 500g!

Wilco do a Hoppy IPA kit for £19 that even with 1kg of Wilco brewing sugar it is supposed to come in at 4% ABV.

https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-feeling-hoppy-ipa-beer-brewing-kit-18kg/p/0468415
Enjoy!
:hat:

 

[Braufather]

This was recommended on a US forum. Might give it a go.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/919381/alchorexia-95cal-3g-carb-hoppy-ale

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@ARTYCHOKE
I've only just picked up and read through this thread.
We should all remember that Diabetes is the inability of the body to process glucose due to to little insulin for requirements. Certain organs require Glucose as their main source of energy, the brain particularly.
Denying the body of glucose does not keep your blood sugar down in the majority of cases, you will break down muscle, fats and carbohydrate to make the energy you need. Without insulin your cells cannot get the glucose inside them and process it to make energy. So an undiagnosed diabetic may have a high blood sugar, the cells are literally starving whilst in a feast.

Alcohol will cloud judgement or assessment of low blood sugar, this is much more dangerous in the short term than a short period of raised blood sugar. Chronic raised blood sugar is bad for all parts of the body.
Moderation is the key, close monitoring of your blood sugars and use of your medications whether insulin or tablet. Some tablets actions to lower blood sugar will be impaired by alcohol consumption.
Modern continuous blood sugar monitors can be a great help for monitoring and control of blood sugars.

You should be able to drink basically the same unit allowance per week of a non diabetic, because you will be aiming for good blood sugar control. Drinking your weekly quota on a friday and saturday night though is likely to upset your metabolism and control. That goes for the non diabetics as well.

I'd aim for lower alcohol beer styles, not glasses of dessert wine and ensure you have eaten or are eating during consumption, paying close attention to your blood sugars and therapy with insulin or other medication.

If you are overweight and have type II diabetes lose the fat, get lean and you might lose your diabetes.