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[chrig]

I fail to see how adding water to cans of extract can be called brewing!

That'll be a few more following mick then...

Everybody is fermenting wort at the end of the day, be it from a can or because you spent 8 hours making it from grain and hops.

Then we tend to get a bit pissed.

 

[falafael]

I fail to see how adding water to cans of extract can be called brewing!

That'll be a few more following mick then...

Everybody is fermenting wort at the end of the day, be it from a can or because you spent 8 hours making it from grain and hops.

Then we tend to get a bit pissed.

At Last, someone who has got a valid bloody point!!

Well done chrig for a mature and realistic comment!!! :thumb:

 

[Brewbob]

Well I went to my fav local where there is always 5 or 6 ales on, I tried 4, 2 were nice, 2 were fair-middling, then I went home and tried one of my Razorback IPAs, I think it equalled the beers I'd had. Hopefully I'll be able to make The Spring Thing next year (would've made it this year but it was my 40th and I had other plans) I'll have some kit beer ready that I'd love to put up, and I'd also love to try some brewers other wares just to compare, and to get some hints and techniques.

+1 to Chrig, I brew therefore I'm pissed...

 

[godfrey]

I fail to see how adding water to cans of extract can be called brewing!

I guess then you think turbo cider don't count either because you didn't press the apples

I wonder if he roasts and grinds his own coffee beans or has instant :rofl:

 

[BIGJIM72]

Interesting to see the way this thread is going.

Sad to see Mick go,although I took little from his threads I could see how they could be useful to others.

Bottom line-it is all down to personal choice. If you are happy with kits,thats fine.Extract? Fine .BIAB? Fine. AG? Fine. Full blown HERMS/RIMS/Shiney? Fine. The only person you need to please is yourself. End of.

I am not a beer snob,although there are a few commercial brews that I couldn't give a fig for.

I am an AG brewer. I don't look down on kits (or kit brewers)-kits taught me the basics I needed to know & gave me the confidence to progress to extract & then to full AG.

I can produce a decent (to my taste) all grain brew,but cost is a factor for me. £20 odd for a 40 pint kit,or £25 odd for a sack of malt that could be the base for 200 odd pints makes a huge fecking difference.

I have the time to brew AG & I have the space for the kit-not everyone has. I like the freedom to create something unique. But by the same token there are others that like the dependable regularity of a Woodefordes kit. There is absolutely no reason why both viewpoints are not equally valid. Against the grain here, but I will stick a kit on if there is a need to.

TBH I get equally annoyed as kit brewers being told about how great AG is when as an AG brewer I see threads running to several pages about how to tweak a kit beer. No offence meant,but this can go both ways. I don't bother reading those posts now.

As far as the bar area goes-if you walk into a strange pub & don't try to engage with the locals then you might be in for a quiet night. Why should it be any different here? What some view as cliques to others might be friendships that have been built up over a length of time.

I hope no offence has been taken,none was meant. It's a forum-we may see things differently,but I have always found that here we can discuss our common goal (decent brews) in a spirit of friendship. Lets not lose sight of that.

 

[PD]

Erm......I visit the bar on here a few times...

Its usually a nice chatty friendly place and I've not had any problems about being ignored or even of ignoring folks I try to make anyone visiting feel welcome.
It can be a minefield if your not carefull, typing comments can be open to misinterpretation etc but all in all we seem to get by.
Humour is good, but alas not everyone sees the same funny side.....
Some conversations can run into problems when say 2 mmbers get discussing a subject they both like and can get carried away to the exclusion of others, but its rare and doesn't last long.
Its the pub, you get allsorts in and allsorts of topics get discussed, If its something that doesn't thrill me I stay quiet. I've always tried to help the visiting noobie with their gunfire questions, although the bars not the best place to hold deep meaningful discussions especially when the beers been flowing. Thats the forums job.
But it seems to me this thread has wandered off from its starting point ( as threads do )
Mick started off by complaining of there being little tolerance in some posters posts, to other folks views and or chosen brewing method.
On a certain level he is probably correct, whether misguided or wrong in that its personal and endemic, thats for him to decide.
Lets be beer brewers whatever way we enjoy doing. Lets be tolerant of others views, lets have fun and learn/swop experiences.


my penny's worth....could go to tuppence this week.....sorry

 

[bobsbeer]

I have always found the Bar area to be friendly. I try to say hi to new people as they come in. As for joining in, well that's up to them. If the conversation is something I don't think I can contribute to, I keep quiet and do other things for a while and come back later. I certainly don't feel ignored. I haven't really noticed any cliques. As Jim says, some members are friends outside the forum, so that is bound to make a difference on the forum. But they are a minority. I've met loads of members at the HB and TST, which has made the forum a better place for me. You get to put a face to the name which is great. As for kit v AG v BIAB v Extract etc, etc. At the end of the day we want beer, (or wine). And we get beer. How we got there doesn't really matter. This is a hobby to be enjoyed, and there is plenty of room for everyone.

As for the commercial bashing, I make no apologies for bashing, Fosters, Carling, Coors, Bud etc. I think they are crap beers. Hence I never buy them, and unless the world ran dry of all other types of beer I would never drink them. If that makes me a snob, then I'm a snob and proud of it.

 

[Moley]

I fail to see how adding water to cans of extract can be called brewing!

For the record, this post has been reported as "a very narrow minded comment when others are trying to defend all levels of brewing" but I'm taking no action as it has already been quoted multiple times (and now again by me), and I actually agree with Jim.

It is often said that brewers make wort, yeast makes beer.

Jim's choice of the word "extract" might be unfortunate because if you are using liquid or dried malt extracts of your choice and boiling it up with hops and maybe other grains of your own choice, then you are making the wort.

I suspect that Jim was referring to merely mixing water (and possibly sugar) with wort that somebody else has produced, condensed and stuck in a tin for you, but if you're happy with the results you get from doing so, then carry on, each to their own.

However, even if you are mixing up and fermenting a beer or wine kit, there's still an element of skill required to get the best out of that kit, and we are all here to share experiences and pool knowledge in order to achieve that.

 

[falafael]

Shock, why am i not surprised by that!

 

[Vossy1]

You know, some things on this topic annoy me, but you lot just don't get it, the reason mick left is exactly what you and vossy are doing, dissing russ!!

Do you know G, you couldn't be further from the truth, that doesn't annoy me because I give folk the benefit of the doubt, and try not to post without reflecting.
I don't see myself as having to justify myself, but for avoidance of doubt, I've never brewed BIAB, but I have no problems with kits or AG, in fact I do both on an ad hoc basis, but I'm not going to even try and compare the two...they are very different...my opinion based on my experience.

What I did do was give folk the chance to split the topic of so it could be discussed properly and the comment I made regards kits v AG still stands, IMO they are different products, whether for the better or worse. As an example you wouldn't compare a can of Fosters to a well served pint of TT from a pub...it's simply not possible...and many kits I've done are a lot better than Fosters :lol: ...but as I said, both have their place. I try to use analogies to illustrate points not to reflect on a product negatively.

My take on discussing this properly is not getting defensive, not being rude and respecting others pov....something which as adults we should be able to do.

I would have thought that having known ev for so long you'd appreciate he has a sense of humour which others don't always understand, like wise he can be blunt...you may disagree with his opinion, but it's his opinion and he's entitled to it.

Big Jim nailed it for me

Bottom line-it is all down to personal choice. If you are happy with kits,thats fine.Extract? Fine .BIAB? Fine. AG? Fine. Full blown HERMS/RIMS/Shiney? Fine. The only person you need to please is yourself. End of.

If it proves impossible to discuss this topic without it becoming a slanging match we will close it...personally I see that eventuality as being very sad, as the subject will then just hide and re-appear somewhere else, so if you want to discuss it make it a separate topic.

EDIT...and before I'm accused of kit snobbery perhaps, my last 6 brews...2 x AG, 2 x beer kit and 2 x wine kit :nah:

 

[godfrey]

one thing I noticed that may help keep the happier

put subtopic brew days and/or discussion areas for AG BIAB and kit

may take a lot to divide the current section tho

this way the sub community of folk can concentrate in their chosen area

 

[Vossy1]

Hi G, thanks for your suggestion :thumb:
The reason we keep all the brew day threads together is to avoid what's happening in this topic. It was also felt that by separating the sections the individual sections would only be viewed by those brewing in that way, therefore dividing the common cause which is making beer...however you do it.
My personal feeling is that it does that purpose very well with cross posting from all levels of experience in all manner of brew day topics, however if the majority think that's not the case we'll look into it

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

I've met loads of members at the HB and TST, which has made the forum a better place for me. You get to put a face to the name which is great.

Whooo, me included Bob..

Interesting to see the way this thread is going.

Sad to see Mick go,although I took little from his threads I could see how they could be useful to others.

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TBH I get equally annoyed as kit brewers being told about how great AG is when as an AG brewer I see threads running to several pages about how to tweak a kit beer. No offence meant,but this can go both ways. I don't bother reading those posts now.

------------------------------------------

As far as the bar area goes-if you walk into a strange pub & don't try to engage with the locals then you might be in for a quiet night. Why should it be any different here? What some view as cliques to others might be friendships that have been built up over a length of time.

------------------------------------------

I hope no offence has been taken,none was meant. It's a forum-we may see things differently,but I have always found that here we can discuss our common goal (decent brews) in a spirit of friendship. Lets not lose sight of that.

Well said, 4 good points I totally agree with..
I don't go in the bar area very often but if I do 50% of the punters will say hello, especially the ones I've been friends with for around 5 years but never take offence if I don't get an Hi.. :wha:

 

[godfrey]

I do see the advantages of keeping the community together

but i also see the convenience for noobs to find the right information in their chosen area

personally i use the new posts or active topics to browse the forum
so I get a good mix of current events and tips across all topics :thumb:

 

[bobsbeer]

bobsbeer wrote:
I've met loads of members at the HB and TST, which has made the forum a better place for me. You get to put a face to the name which is great.


Whooo, me included Bob..

Well there are always exceptions to the rule...... :lol: :lol: Only kidding. :grin: I don't want to start another war. :lol:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think that whatever you brew it does not matter as long as you enjoy doing it and reaping the rewards from it.

My thoughts exactly, i mainly make WOW variants, part of the fun of this hobby for me is experimenting with different juices and seeing if the end result is good or not so good (never had one that was undrinkable)

I would hate to find a couple of WOW's we liked more than others and from then on only make these because they were the equivalent of a shop bought wine, how boring would that get.

 

[evanvine]

I apologise to any one who was upset with my comment, but I still stand by the import of what I said!
Moley was right, I did mean making beer with somebody else's concentrate.
I agree with many of the comments that have arisen thereafter, especially those regarding "each to his own" and freedom of comment!

 

[morethanworts]

Just some feedback on dividing sections up...

I for one just invariably click on 'Active Topics' when I visit the forum, so I get to see the most interesting (active) topics across the board, regardless of the original sub-forum in which they were posted. [It would be interesting to know how many others do the same, as opposed to bookmarking specific sub-forums where they prefer to hang out.]

I appreciate that when I post a topic in the 'Brewday' section, covering a kit, then it's nothing like someone going to all the effort of an AG brewday. It is currently the most relevant section to share what you're doing and there are disappointingly few kit 'brewday' topics IMO. It's still interesting to see exactly what other people do from that stage in the process. I suspect that having a separate section for 'kitdays' or whatever you'd want to call them, may actually yield a few more entries. That alone may be enough of a reason to do it. The tag line for the Brewdays does say "If you're making beer...[tell us about it here]", as opposed to "brewing", so the invite to kit 'brewers' is already there, but I think I'd probably be in favour of a separate section.

Whatever happens, I will not be comfortable with 'Master Brewer' under my avatar at 1000 posts. I will think of something more appropriate for the limited scope of my experience, even though I did my first kit around 1994

FWIW, kit brewing isn't really 'brewing' as defined by a dictionary, but it still produces what would be defined as 'Home Brew'. So the definition is rather arbitrary. We're all producing beer. [EDIT - or wine, or whatever...]

I see there is far more topic-segregation on another popular brewing forum, so having fewer divisions on THBF may be something that Admin see as a distinguishing feature. There's a balance to be struck. I used to be active on an audio-capture forum where the different levels were heavily segregated. However, the really high-end guys still enjoyed dipping in to the lower end areas and sharing (if not showing off) their experience.

In the end, we're all capable of assessing the advice we're given, however the forum is divided. If an AG brewer who had done very few kits or extracts beforehand offered advice on temperature control or sanitation after his first brew, to someone who's been doing kits/extracts for years, I'd probably listen, but I'd take it with a pinch of salt. I'd still tend to appreciate their input.

 

[oldbloke]

I for one just invariably click on 'Active Topics' when I visit the forum, so I get to see the most interesting (active) topics across the board, regardless of the original sub-forum in which they were posted. [It would be interesting to know how many others do the same, as opposed to bookmarking specific sub-forums where they prefer to hang out.]

I always hit 'new posts' and then look at the ones I'm interested in or may be able to usefully contribute to
If I'd hit 'new posts' one last time before going to bed on Thursday Mick might still be here, sigh.

 

[bobsbeer]

I usually hit Board Index then Active Topics. So for me it doesn't really matter where a post has been put. As a result I don't just get to see Beer or Wine related posts. But there is a down side to that, in that if i'm not on the forum regularly, it is easy to miss some posts that drop off the end of the page.

Brew days are brew days whether AG, BIAB or kits. So I see no reason why they don't get posted. Maybe people think it's boring to see pics of tins being poured into a fermenter? But as some kit brewers tweak their kits, it would be good to post and share your tweaks. Pictures are optional.