Death Penalty

[isolation123]

Do you agree with the death penalty?

Obviously its still inforce in America, the main reason I posted this was regarding the Troy Davis story basically he has been on death row for something like 20years and is going to be executed on 21st September 2011, there is so little evidence linking him with actually killing a policeman - no forensics, 7/9 witness have sinced changed statements etc

See story below and actions to take

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=11458

:thumb:

 

[The Ginger Ninja]

No.

I do think life should mean life.

However if someone raped or murdered my Mrs or other familly members then I would kill them with out a second thought or guilt.

 

[oldbloke]

I'd bring it back for an extremely restricted minority of cases. There'd have to be absolutely no doubt, no mitigating circumstances whatsoever, and no real prospect of rehabilitation.

 

[TheMumbler]

No, morally I don't agree that revenge is a good enough reason for breaking one of our society's most fundamental rules that it is not OK to kill somebody. You have to practice what you preach. On a more practical level, you cannot ever guarantee that there won't be a mistake or foul play in the justice system. Once a life is taken you can do nothing to give it back or make ammends.

 

[WelshPaul]

No. It's been proven that it is no deterrent as the majority of cases that would necessitate the death penalty are usually crimes of passion, are committed whilst mentally impaired, or by people who simply do not believe or care that they will be caught.

Plus, it's not as if the state can be guaranteed to do a thorough job when it comes to prosecuting high profile crimes!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/0 ... hen-miller

 

[simonkidder]

i think it should definatly be brought back. but only used in extreme cases.

whay should the tax payer be contributing twenty odd grand a year to keep some sick, dangerous people in prison. in my opinion its just wrong.

but as i say only in extreme situations where it is 110% that the person had committed the crime. such as the soham guy who killed the school girls jessica chapman and here friend. this guy shouldnt be allowed to live.

One thing that annoys me is the do gooders who try to protect these people. I think there opinions would be different if it was there young daughters.

but the above is my personal oppinion, hope i havnt offended anyone

 

[Wraeccan]

Do you agree with the death penalty?

Obviously its still inforce in America, the main reason I posted this was regarding the Troy Davis story basically he has been on death row for something like 20years and is going to be executed on 21st September 2011, there is so little evidence linking him with actually killing a policeman - no forensics, 7/9 witness have sinced changed statements etc

See story below and actions to take

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=11458

:thumb:

I don't agree with it in principle, and certainly don't in this particular case.
Hence the fact I have emailed the State of Georgia via Amnesty...

The cost to keep these people is a financial issue and not a moral one. I don't see any reason why most offenders can't do something to help pay their own costs. Historically, there have been too many 'dead certainties' that have proved to be outright incorrect or flimsy at best.

 

[graysalchemy]

Disagree with it totally but life should mean life and not in a namby pamby holiday camp.

What about a labotomy or a penal colony in an old Russian Stalag or perhaps in a Chilean coal mine. That would give them something to think about.

 

[TheMumbler]

One thing that annoys me is the do gooders...

You know, using that phrase as a negative label has always bugged me. What, exactly, is wrong with doing good or seeking to do good?

With regard to the other things you said, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I've given mine and this kind of thread always leads to bad feeling so I'm going to duck out here.

 

[HLA91]

I agree with oldbloke about the no doubt part, but I think it should be used for quite a few crimes, and no waiting on death row for 20 years, that's stupid. Rape, murder, drug dealing, aggrevated burgalry and armed robbery should be death. And for the prisons, life sentences should be fed in there cell, allowed out only for exercise with their cellmate and not allowed contact with other prisoners, made to work, no tv, and another one I picked up from a Russian prison program, they cannot sit or lie on their bed from 9 till 8.

 

[theboytony]

If i thought that the people involved in prosecuting/defending/handing out the sentence would do a good job and get it right then i would definitely say yes but that isn't going to happen so would probably say no

 

[Dave1970]

Definitely disagree with it, history shows unreliable convictions do happen. Cases like the Guildford 4 or Birmingham 6 would have attracted the death penalty and that sure as hell wouldn't have looked good when those convictions were exposed as unsafe.

I'm also not sure where the idea of prison as a "holiday camp" really comes from. I've been in 3 prisons and a Young Offenders Centre, Leicester prison as part of a tour when doing a criminology course and Gartree, Stocken and Glen Parva YOC to play rugby against them. They were all bloody awful places, even Stocken which is category C (lowish security). Now maybe I'm a nice middle class lad who's easily shocked but these were no holiday camps to my eyes. Not that I'm saying they should be better, prison shouldn't be nice, but I think the whole prison is cushy idea is a bit of a media myth.

 

[Cyclops]

Definitely disagree with it, history shows unreliable convictions do happen. Cases like the Guildford 4 or Birmingham 6 would have attracted the death penalty and that sure as hell wouldn't have looked good when those convictions were exposed as unsafe.

I'm also not sure where the idea of prison as a "holiday camp" really comes from. I've been in 3 prisons and a Young Offenders Centre, Leicester prison as part of a tour when doing a criminology course and Gartree, Stocken and Glen Parva YOC to play rugby against them. They were all bloody awful places, even Stocken which is category C (lowish security). Now maybe I'm a nice middle class lad who's easily shocked but these were no holiday camps to my eyes. Not that I'm saying they should be better, prison shouldn't be nice, but I think the whole prison is cushy idea is a bit of a media myth.

Yeh leicester Glen Parva is so hard on people, they are given an argos book to pick what they want in their cell. They get Freeview in their cella nd if doing enough time get a playstation. Really hard life aint it.

 

[simonkidder]

One thing that annoys me is the do gooders...
You know, using that phrase as a negative label has always bugged me. What, exactly, is wrong with doing good or seeking to do good?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with people doing good. When I say do gooders I mean people who seek to protect the rights of the people who are committing awful crimes.

When I person takes the human rights of someone else by means of murder, rape or whatever they should automatically waiver there own human rights.

Ps I hope the quote thing worked as I'm using my iPhone and drinking a magnum pear cider.

 

[unclepumble]

I agree with it, there are enough OXYGEN THIEVES spending my taxes without me having to pay for murders and the likes to grow old in HMP BUTLINS.

Pop a cap in their heads at first chance, and free up some room.

You may not like what I stated above but I am entitled to my opionion, the world would be a much better place without your sutcliffe, Huntley, brady & Hindley's to name a few.

UP

 

[simonkidder]

Well said unclepumble. I couldnt agree with you more. I hate tax dodgers. And they are the lowest of the low.

 

[Dave1970]

Yeh leicester Glen Parva is so hard on people, they are given an argos book to pick what they want in their cell. They get Freeview in their cella nd if doing enough time get a playstation. Really hard life aint it.

Yeah these things sound bad, I don't know if this is true, I assume you do. Still these are peripheral. Losing your freedom is the punishment.

It depends what you want prison to do...do you want it to just be a horrible place for punishment? A lot of people do and I don't have a any problem with people like Huntley being in a feckin awful place for life. Logic says this should be a good deterrent but all the evidence suggests that it's not. USA has prisons with incredibly harsh regimes and the death penalty in a lot of states and for the most part it's not had much impact on crime, they have the highest % prison population of any developed country.

Or do you want it to rehabilitate? If so then education, training etc. is the name of the game. As has already been pointed out prison is expensive and with decent classes and the like it's more expensive but even if we manage to rehabilitate even a fairly small % it saves us a hell of a lot of ££ in the long term. For example I've played rugby against Stocken, last time I played there we were told by an officer afterwards that 8/15 of their side were murderers! As a category C prison they have a lot of people who are coming to the end of 'life' sentences and are now considered low escape risk. The opposition players there have always been polite, pleasant and the game tends to be cleaner than a lot we play. Why should they get to play rugby, surely that's a fun activity? Well the officers reckons they've had a lot of success with guys that they've taught to play and then set up with a club side when they're released. This gives them a different group of mates to go out drinking with and keeps them away from the crowd that got them into trouble in the first place. If they don't go back again we all benefit.

Unclepumble: most of us feel much the same way, I know I do, it's natural to hate these people. But if we're going to claim status as a civilised society/democracy/influential country globally can we actually act on these instincts?

 

[big brew ejit]

How about we just execute paedophiles, child murderers, anyone involved in child pornography, human trafficking etc.

You get the picture........

 

[Dave1970]

Again I really not into defending the scum of the Earth, let life mean life, but do we want to add ourselves to this list?
(in order of no. executed in 2010)
1 People's Republic of China
2 Iran
3 North Korea
4 Yemen
5 United States
6 Saudi Arabia
7 Libya
8 Syria
9 Bangladesh
10 Somalia
11 Sudan
12 Palestinian Authority
13 Egypt
14 Equatorial Guinea
15 Taiwan
16 Belarus
17 Japan
18 Iraq
19 Malaysia
20 Bahrain
21 Botswana
22 Singapore
23 Vietnam

 

[big brew ejit]

Again I really not into defending the scum of the Earth, let life mean life, but do we want to add ourselves to this list?
(in order of no. executed in 2010)
1 People's Republic of China
2 Iran
3 North Korea
4 Yemen
5 United States
6 Saudi Arabia
7 Libya
8 Syria
9 Bangladesh
10 Somalia
11 Sudan
12 Palestinian Authority
13 Egypt
14 Equatorial Guinea
15 Taiwan
16 Belarus
17 Japan
18 Iraq
19 Malaysia
20 Bahrain
21 Botswana
22 Singapore
23 Vietnam

I see where you are coming from but some of those countries have fairly unstable governments never mind a justice system beyond reproach.

Lets face it the death penalty will never be re-introduced and life will never mean life.

The groups I mentioned to be executed I could do myself but thats propably from being a parent and having come across people who have been victims of the like and seeing how their lives have being destroyed and not receiving justice.

It costs approx £400 - £500 to keep somebody in prison per week and we are constantly told that it is a drain on finances (ironic how justice has a price).
My solution would be to let them live in squalor with some blankets for heat, candles for light and everything else they can sort out themselves. Another addition would be for them to do actual work that would benefit society eg re-building roads, cleaning up delapitated areas etc.

If anyone has been found to have been a miscarriage of justice then they should get properly compensated by the government on a fast-track basis.