De-gassing Wilko's wine.

[leegalvin]

Hey all,

I'm still on the process of bashing this carbon dioxide out of my Wilko's Cab Sauv. As I've still not fashioned myself a whisk (using a power drill etc.), I'm continuing the method of putting my hand over the hole, and shaking the demijohn back and forth vigourously, then releasing the gas ... and repeat.

Just wanted to know, from those of you who have used this de-gassing method before (and been successful), how long should it take? I'm on my 3rd or 4th day (can't remember) of doing it sporadically throughout the day and it still seems to have a lot of gas in there (lots of foam created). Should I stick with it and learn to be patient?

Ideally I'd like to finish it this way, but if it goes on for weeks (or even longer, eek) I will have to cave in and get myself a drill!

 

[wino2012]

the foam is not much to go by. A damn good shake before stabilising and fining, then again after. It may be that you are just shaking air into it, hence the foam. Much has been said about de-gassing, some do, some don't. I do. usually for half an hour or so before fining, with 5 min gaps in between shakes, usually does the trick :thumb:

 

[leegalvin]

The taste is almost like a slightly carbonated red wine though, which isn't pleasant ... so I'd assume that meant I needed to continue de-gassing. Maybe I should just rack it again (onto a crushed campden tablet), then just leave it to sort itself out!?

 

[stevie1556]

As above, you could be shaking air into it, which I think I used to do. On my last batch of wines, I only made a half hearted attempt at degassing them, and they all cleared perfectly in normal time.

My opinion, degassing doesn't need to be done perfectly for great results.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

When you shake it the first time and release your hand you notice the CO2 comes out with quite a lot of force, when you repeat this several times that force gets less and less until its more of a pop than a whoosh (for want of a better description) to be honest even when you degass using a drill and coat hanger as i do its still a certain amount of guesswork involved as the coat hanger also creates bubbles.
One advantage with the drill is it only takes a couple of minutes where the shaking method takes hours, i use vinclear which says it will take 7 - 10 days to clear a gallon, on my first WOW using the hand degass method it did take 7 days to clear, it now takes 2 days using the drill and coat hanger method.

 

[Moley]

A damn good shake before stabilising and fining, then again after. ... (snip) ... Much has been said about de-gassing, some do, some don't. I do. usually for half an hour or so before fining, with 5 min gaps in between shakes, usually does the trick

Ditto.

A few damned good shakes over a period of half an hour or so usually does the trick :thumb:

If yours is still giving off gas, maybe fermentation hadn't entirely finished.

Did you take a final gravity reading (if so, what was it) and did you add a stopper/stabiliser sacet?

 

[wino2012]

De-gassing can actually be quite theraputic, if its a 1 gallon DJ. 30 bottle kits? :nono: You'll end with a Lamb Shankers elbow :rofl:

 

[leegalvin]

Hmmm, hearing all of this I'm very tempted to just rack it (this will be the 2nd time) and then leave it for as long as my patience will stand before bottling. Would you recommend racking onto a crushed campden tablet again?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If you watch this from 9:20 you can hear him shake the DJ and the loud escape of CO2 as he removes his hand, do it a few times over a couple of hours and there will be hardly and noise when you remove your hand, as i said earlier its a bit of guess work but you will know when most of it has gone.

http://youtu.be/BJQQdkS0JAw

 

[leegalvin]

Yeah, the more I read the more I decided that I was actually just shaking air into it and doing more damage than good ... so I've racked for a 2nd time (onto 1/2 a campden tablet to be sure), and I gotta' say, my wine is looking lovely and clear. A bit lighter than you'd expect a Cab sauv, but it is a kit after all.

It still tastes pretty horrendous though (early days, I know). Now I just wait and wait and wait I suppose ... for as long as my patience lasts? I keep reading that it's best to wait for 6 months+ before bottling a red, while the Wilko's instructions (not that I've been following them exactly) suggest it will be ready to drink pretty much straight away. Hmmmm...

 

[Grand gris]

Yeah, the more I read the more I decided that I was actually just shaking air into it and doing more damage than good ... so I've racked for a 2nd time (onto 1/2 a campden tablet to be sure), and I gotta' say, my wine is looking lovely and clear. A bit lighter than you'd expect a Cab sauv, but it is a kit after all.

It still tastes pretty horrendous though (early days, I know). Now I just wait and wait and wait I suppose ... for as long as my patience lasts? I keep reading that it's best to wait for 6 months+ before bottling a red, while the Wilko's instructions (not that I've been following them exactly) suggest it will be ready to drink pretty much straight away. Hmmmm...

I don't understand why Kit makers say it is drinkable straight away :nah: . I'm sure they must put off loads of potential customers who drink what they produce and never go back.

Especially with reds, but with white also, 6 month or so ageing makes a world of difference :drink:

 

[Bitcaster]

I give 5 day kits a full 7 days and they're usually pretty good. I used to tip from one 5Gal bucket to another about 20 times, which is a real ball ache - with the big spoon and the drill, I just beat the living wotnot out of it until there're bugger all bubbles left. Usually takes 20 minutes.

Yeah, the more I read the more I decided that I was actually just shaking air into it and doing more damage than good ... so I've racked for a 2nd time (onto 1/2 a campden tablet to be sure), and I gotta' say, my wine is looking lovely and clear. A bit lighter than you'd expect a Cab sauv, but it is a kit after all.

It still tastes pretty horrendous though (early days, I know). Now I just wait and wait and wait I suppose ... for as long as my patience lasts? I keep reading that it's best to wait for 6 months+ before bottling a red, while the Wilko's instructions (not that I've been following them exactly) suggest it will be ready to drink pretty much straight away. Hmmmm...

I don't understand why Kit makers say it is drinkable straight away :nah: . I'm sure they must put off loads of potential customers who drink what they produce and never go back.

Especially with reds, but with white also, 6 month or so ageing makes a world of difference :drink:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I don't understand why Kit makers say it is drinkable straight away . I'm sure they must put off loads of potential customers who drink what they produce and never go back.

In today's world where everything has to be done either immediately or yesterday could you imagine what would happen if they put "the wine will be ready to drink in six months" on the front of the packaging.

To be fair i have tried several kits and have found them all to be drinkable from the moment they cleared, obviously the longer you leave them the better they will get but i have never found one that i thought was awful.

 

[jansman]

I don't bother degassing these kits. When I bottle it I screw the cap on, shake it, release the cap, tighten and repeat. That is it. I try to cut handling time as much as possible-shades of work there!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Surely doing that with 6 or 30 bottles is adding handling time not reducing it, 2 minutes with the drill and 15 minutes later mine has already dropped this much to the bottom.

 

[jansman]

No, cos I am moving the bottles to their final home any way. But that is my take on it.

 

[leegalvin]

Cheers guys - all very helpful. One more thing ... is it ever too late to top up your wine? It's at the point where the wine is really clear and just needs to be left alone for as long as possible (I think), but there's a lot of space at the top of the demijohn. I think I'll probably just leave it (less wine, but never mind), unless you think this a bad idea? I don't want to over-dilute! Ha, I realise I'm soundling like such a novice.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I always top up my WOW's with cooled boiled water when the vigorous fermentation has finished, I use water as I double up on one of the juices (the one I want it to finally taste of) so its never watery.
A lot of people use WGJ or RGJ or something else to top up which adds to the sweetness and also the flavour.

 

[Grand gris]

I don't understand why Kit makers say it is drinkable straight away . I'm sure they must put off loads of potential customers who drink what they produce and never go back.

In today's world where everything has to be done either immediately or yesterday could you imagine what would happen if they put "the wine will be ready to drink in six months" on the front of the packaging.

To be fair i have tried several kits and have found them all to be drinkable from the moment they cleared, obviously the longer you leave them the better they will get but i have never found one that i thought was awful.

You're right. It is drinkable, but those who continue as a hobby know that it improves overtime. From a marketing point of view if someone doesn't continue brewing they've not lost sales I suppose

 

[leegalvin]

I always top up my WOW's with cooled boiled water when the vigorous fermentation has finished, I use water as I double up on one of the juices (the one I want it to finally taste of) so its never watery.
A lot of people use WGJ or RGJ or something else to top up which adds to the sweetness and also the flavour.

Thanks ... and is it ever too late to top up? If I were to top it up with some RGJ now, I suppose in essence I'm just diluting my wine?