Creating my own brewing crash course

[EasyDean]

Hi All

I used to do a bit of home brewing many years ago using kits from boots, but today I'm back into it and really want/need to fast-track some experience in current home brew techniques etc.

I have a plan to do some brewing with the aim to get as much and as broad an amount of knowledge as possible and cram it into a short period of time.

The plan is to create 3 separate brews, one with a kit, one with extract, and a third as 'AG'. Fortunately I have access to whatever equipment and ingredients that I might need.

My first idea is to brew Brupaks London Bitter, as they do a complete kit in a tin, a kit that requires malt extract (craftsman), and a 'mashkit' which is the 'AG' equivalent. I'm guessing that following the same recipe in all 3 scenarios will enable me to understand the taste and aroma differences between the three methods. Is this a reasonable assumption ?
Also, the Brupaks London Bitter complete kit is for 10 litres - I'm assuming there'll be no difference between brewing 10 litres and 20 litres (apart from the quantity of beer of course).

I'm going to use 23 litre plastic and 23 litre glass demijohns with airlocks. I can get a Brupaks boiler, mash tun and hop strainer for the extract and AG versions.

I'm going to put some in Cornelius Kegs, some in King Kegs and some in bottles, so I can get a handle on the differences.

My main question is - are there any flaws in this idea ?
Does anyone know if there is anything I can do in addition to this that'll broaden my experience in the short term ?

I know that it takes a lot of experience over a long period of time to become anything like an expert, but I'd like to become a competent 'all rounder' as soon as possible, and then grow my knowledge in the normal way from there.

I know this is an odd question, but any comments will be greatly received.

Dean

 

[aeddon]

the only flaw i can see is wasting time on the kit and extract when you can go AG spend time working out how to increase efficiency and brewing more AG

I've only done 4 all grain brews but will not ever go back, not on your nelly, not even to see how they compare. I brewed kits for 10yrs before spending some dosh on a AG kit, had fun and enjoyed my beer but again wouldnt go back.

i like the idea to see the difference in a brew in a corny, keg and bottle. The difficulty i have is having beer around long enough to compare brews. That and the temptation to constantly upgrade :lol: bigger bigger bigger

good luck and have fun

' :

 

[EasyDean]

Hi aeddon, thanks for the comments.

I would completely agree, only the fact of the matter is that I've just opened a home brew shop and I'm being asked questions on a broad range of subjects, and I'm having to admit to not having enough experience.

Once I've 'cut my teeth' with all brewing methods, I can see myself being exclusively AG for the reasons you mention (and I think thats where I'll really be having fun )

Thanks again

Dean

 

[Moley]

Hi Dean, and welcome to the forum :

The shop puts things in a slightly different context, and the best of luck with your venture.

It could be worth starting off a kit brew, it's the quickest and easiest way of getting your first brew laid down, and will prove to you what aeddon has said. I did 5 kit brews before this lot got me onto AG. Unfortunately, I still have quite a few bottles left. It does get used, for example if we're making a steak & ale pie, but rarely gets chosen as a drink.

If you've got / got access to the kit needed for AG then I really can't see any merit in the extract brew, it's the most expensive method and you're missing out on the fun part, but I suppose you need to know what you're talking about when dealing with customers.

For AG, all the knowledge and experience you could possible need is on this forum.

 

[commsbiff]

If they have any questions you can't answer (and even if you can), may I recommend you point your customers to this site. Just keeping up with what's going on with other people's brews and members questions and answers will be invaluable to them. :thumb: Do you have a homebrew shop website yet?

 

[Frisp]

Save yourself time money and effort. locate the largest AG setup you can afford, complete with Cornies. and live the rest of your life happy ever after.... :thumb:

 

[EasyDean]

Thanks for the great advice Moley, commsbiff and Frisp

I didnt realise there was such a big quality difference between kits and AG - I just guessed that the main point of AG is to have more control over the recipe. I learn something new every day

I have an online shop and get calls every day. I also get people visiting, which is great as I like discussing stuff face-to-face. in the end, I just want to give people good advice - whether they buy from me or not.

My shop (and website) has a huge amount of AG stuff in it, so I guess my instincts were right when I stocked-up in that area, but to be honest most customers (so far) are beginners, and I suspect that AG will be beyond them - who knows.

Personally, I am in my own version of a kid owning a sweetshop, and I can see myself accumulating a personal stash of top-end kit and using only the best ingredients and methods - but I'll still need to keep the customer satisfied :)

Dean

 

[Aleman]

The guys like me that go straight into all grain are pretty few and far between. Those of us here are probably the most committed (we should be) of all brewers, and I would bet that we probably make up less than 5% of the total brewing population. . . . It is a lot of investment in inventory to cater for this target market. . . . What is good though if you do trade online is that you keep your stock rotating pretty quickly :thumb: Of course you have to compete against the likes of Hop and Grape, BarleyBottom, Matchless, BrewUK, The Hop Shop, The Jolly Brewer, Leyland Homebrew, Hamstead Homebrew . . . to name just a few.

Couple of tips if you don't already

1) Keep your dried yeast in the fridge or even in a freezer
2) Keep you hops vac packed in the freezer,

And errr, send you customers here for in depth advice :lol:

 

[Moley]

I didn't realise there was such a big quality difference between kits and AG - I just guessed that the main point of AG is to have more control over the recipe. I learn something new every day

Neither did I, but I had a big pan for a boiler and was able to make the rest of the gear quite cheaply, so I thought I'd give it a try. This forum was invaluable, I did my homework and am in now for the long haul. Tesco's and Morrison's profits are down, I flatly refuse to pay their stupid prices for bottled ales now that I can brew better, and cheaper. AG has to be as real as ale can get.

However, I would suspect that only a very small percentage of your customers will ever go beyond kit brewing (beer or wine), so that should be your main concern for now.

 

[jonewer]

If you've got / got access to the kit needed for AG then I really can't see any merit in the extract brew, it's the most expensive method and you're missing out on the fun part, but I suppose you need to know what you're talking about when dealing with customers.

Skip the extract, you will get all the experience you need from AG as extract is basically the same as AG but with instant wort from a tin or plastic bag rather than from a mash tun full of grain.

 

[Polymath]

I can also echo the comments already on this thread. Best of luck with your venture...

My own experience on homebrew started from seeing the basic kits in Wilko's. Then had a look online for homebrew and found a local homebrew shop (Hop and Grape, mentioned earlier). From there I found this forum and started to learn that kits are good, but there is other options out there. I'm now in the plans for a heated brewing cupboard (See my thread called DIY homebrew cupboard), and regularly checking out ASDA and Lidl for cheap materials to make into wine.

I would guess that the majority of your customers are at the first stages. They just found a kit or two, and want to know more.

For market research purposes, I would check out all the other homebrew shops to see what percentage of their products are kits / extracts or AG. I would expect its about 60%/40%/20%. Give or take a bit, would love to know the answer thou :-)

 

[Moley]

For market research purposes, I would check out all the other homebrew shops to see what percentage of their products are kits / extracts or AG. I would expect its about 60%/40%/20%. Give or take a bit,

Interesting maths, Polymath :lol:

 

[Polymath]

Sadly this is not related to alcohol, just far too tired. haha.

 

[EasyDean]

Wow, thanks again everyone for such huge feedback - I really appreciate it.

Polymath - thanks for the percentages for other homebrew shops. I think mine is more heavily weighted towards the extract and AG end - offering more products in this area than for kits. We've got a bigger grain, hop, extract and yeast offering for example, and maybe less on the kits.
Perhaps if my customers are going to be more interested in kits then I should redress the balance and get more kits in, and cut back on the grains and hops etc.

All food for thought - many thanks all - I REALLY REALLY appreciate it :)

Dean

 

[corby_brewer]

The guys like me that go straight into all grain are pretty few and far between

Forgive me if im wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that your first steps in homebrew was making up a kit with twice the recommended amount of sugar and fementing it in a airing cupboard.

I myself think that most people start with KITS then once they get a couple under ther belts they will want to tweak them a bit, so will move on to EXTRACT and then once they have made a couple of belters will then move on to AG.

If you where to post a poll on this or any other forum im guessing that the majority of people are AG brewers and wine makers. Then will come extract brewers and finally kit makers.

 

[corby_brewer]

The guys like me that go straight into all grain are pretty few and far between

Forgive me if im wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that your first steps in homebrew was making up a kit with twice the recommended amount of sugar and fementing it in a airing cupboard.

I myself think that most people start with KITS then once they get a couple under ther belts they will want to tweak them a bit, so will move on to EXTRACT and then once they have made a couple of belters will then move on to AG.

If you where to post a poll on this or any other forum im guessing that the majority of people are AG brewers and wine makers. Then will come extract brewers and finally kit makers.

 

[Aleman]

The guys like me that go straight into all grain are pretty few and far between

Forgive me if im wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that your first steps in homebrew was making up a kit with twice the recommended amount of sugar and fementing it in a airing cupboard.

No not wrong, It was a john bull trial kit and 8 pints . . . . but My next brew was and Abbott Ale clone from Brewing Beers Like those You Buy . . . . The kit was nasty, and if I hadn't found BBLTYB I would never have made another beer at all. . . . Kits today are a great improvement on what was available then . . . Shame the kit instructions have not moved on at all, and we still get people adding lots more sugar and fermenting them too warm.

One issue I have with a lot of retailers (including my LHBS) is that id someone goes in asking about all grain they are told that its a waste of time (It takes a long time, yes), and its quicker and easier to use a kit (also true) . . . but there is no mention that AG is better quality. I guess the issue is that in order to give quality advice on all grain you actually do have to do it.

The other thing to bear in mind is that you don't need all the shiny stuff we have here, all grain can be done in plastic buckets, cheaply and simply, and that is where most of the AG customers will be.

 

[Bribie]

Mate, nothing wrong with using kits for your first few brews until you get back into the swing of sanitising, temperature control, bottling etc. You won't be wasting any money because the gear you acquire at this stage is still the gear you'll need down the track - fermenters, hydrometer, thermometer, capping tool etc (well maybe not the tin opener )

Most brewing books and on-line resources then recommend going to 'intermediate' brewing using malt extract, hops ... Personally for anyone keen to go to AG I'd skip that step and plunge right into the 'darkside'. I didn't do extract brews but recently I couldn't brew for a month and was in danger of running out, so I banged up a quick all-extract brew (my first ever) using the finest malt extract, hops and yeast. I racked it into secondary two nights ago and had a quick taste. Suddenly I was 9 years old again, you know how certain tastes and smells can take you back instantly - the stuff tasted exactly like the brew my Dad used to crank out in the plastic dustbin when I was a kid in Newcastle on Tyne living in the council flats and I used to sneak a taste :lol: :lol:

No going back. Problem is getting the money together but as posters have said you don't need to go stainless steel HERMS etc, I used to do brilliant AG brews in a Bruheat years ago when I lived in Cardiff.

 

[EasyDean]

Thanks all, I think it's becoming clear that the kits and the extract brewing isn't going to teach me as much as if I go straight to AG.

Fortunately for me, I can use whatever kit and ingredients I think I might need.

I guess it's time to unwrap one of those big blue mash tuns sitting on the shelf and get going.

I was going to use one of the Brupaks Mashkit products, where all of the grains, hops etc etc are already measured out for a recipe - I guess it'd include instructions also.

Does anyone know of a good online video I can watch ? Although it sounds reasonably straight forward, seeing someone do it will probably stop me making any silly errors that could have been easily avoided.

Thanks again all

Dean

 

[prolix]

dean you may want to write your own brew guides for the kits and email or paper copy them to customers, as Aleman said they are usually rubbish, oh and if it was me give a sachet of proper yeast as a prezzie for first time kit customers. I still remember the three free whirliflock tablets I got with an order once and have reordered from that shop for that reason.

Good luck :