Crash Cooling Questions

[TheQuokka]

I crash chill and add 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin. I brew all grain and my beers end up crystal clear, though another week or two in the keezer is necessary to remove chill haze. The crash chilling removes most of the yeast from the beer, so in a pinch I can fast carbonate and drink the beer on the day I keg it - it still has chill haze, of course, but no overpowering yeast flavours.

 

[Robsparky99]

I've read somewhere that bringing the temperature up too fast from cold adds Diacetyl (butter?) flavours to the beer, so I raise it a few degrees every 12 hours from Lagering or crash cool until I reach room temp for bottling... I think that's ok (Newbie probably putting his foot in it):wha:

 

[TheQuokka]

Never heard that one. You should raise the temperature of a lager after primary ferment ation has finished for a day or two to allow the yeast to remove diacetyl though. With an Ale the diacetyl rest tends to occur naturally as long as you don't crash it too early.

 

[Leo1983]

Since I started crash cooling and using Gelatin in the primary before packaging, my beers clarity has greatly improved.

I primary for about 3.5 weeks, drop temp down for 24 hours, add gelatin solution, package 48 or so hours later.

For the benefits of gelatin here is a good side by side comparison...
http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Brett74]

Do you bottle and prime while the wort is still cold or do you bring the temp back up first.

Prime cold and then just let come back up to room temp. (20)

 

[Fil]

I've read somewhere that bringing the temperature up too fast from cold adds Diacetyl (butter?) flavours to the beer, so I raise it a few degrees every 12 hours from Lagering or crash cool until I reach room temp for bottling... I think that's ok (Newbie probably putting his foot in it):wha:

Why are you warming up prior to bottling at all? the beer once split into small bottle volumes it will warm up to ambient temperatures much quicker than if in the bulk bucket still.

I think some wires may have gotten crossed along the way,
at the end of primary before you crash chill you can perform a diactyl rest which is a case of raising the temp of the brew towards the upper limit of the yeasts published temperature range to encourage the yeast to speed up a little and clear up the residual sugar compounds that can leave the buttery taste. once gone, regardless of how fast/cold any temp change is effected nothings bringing them back..

 

[Robsparky99]

Why are you warming up prior to bottling at all? the beer once split into small bottle volumes it will warm up to ambient temperatures much quicker than if in the bulk bucket still.

I think some wires may have gotten crossed along the way,
at the end of primary before you crash chill you can perform a diactyl rest which is a case of raising the temp of the brew towards the upper limit of the yeasts published temperature range to encourage the yeast to speed up a little and clear up the residual sugar compounds that can leave the buttery taste. once gone, regardless of how fast/cold any temp change is effected nothings bringing them back..

Yes checked my notes and got it totally wrong, I do the Diacetyl Rest before transferring it to a secondary FV and cooling it.

 

[Fore]

I have a Westmalle Tripel clone in primary that looks like chocolate milkshake. Yeast was 2 packs of Mangrove Jack's M31 Tripel. It's 2 weeks in and sitting at 1.003, so it's not going any further. Sample tastes bloody fantastic by the way, but that's another story. I've never crash cooled before, but I think it might be worthwhile this time. Plan is to transfer to secondary then immediately into a 2C fridge (primary kitchen fridge; some rearranging necessary), leave overnight, then rack to keg next day. Not absolutely sure the transfer is necessary, but I run quite a sanitary brewery and I think I'd feel more comfortable about it, and easier to get the secondary in the fridge. I thought I'd do it in pictures so you can see the result directly (for good or bad). I'll return at the weekend.

 

[Breameister]

I have just posted about chilling on a separate thread. As I have the as brewmaster with the internal coil could I crash chill using this or would it take too long. I thought about using the freezer part of the fridge to install the coil.

 

[Fil]

I have a Westmalle Tripel clone in primary that looks like chocolate milkshake. Yeast was 2 packs of Mangrove Jack's M31 Tripel. It's 2 weeks in and sitting at 1.003, so it's not going any further. Sample tastes bloody fantastic by the way, but that's another story. I've never crash cooled before, but I think it might be worthwhile this time. Plan is to transfer to secondary then immediately into a 2C fridge (primary kitchen fridge; some rearranging necessary), leave overnight, then rack to keg next day. Not absolutely sure the transfer is necessary, but I run quite a sanitary brewery and I think I'd feel more comfortable about it, and easier to get the secondary in the fridge. I thought I'd do it in pictures so you can see the result directly (for good or bad). I'll return at the weekend.

it can take a day or so to hit the target temp when initially chilling from fermentation temps so given the above plan the beer may not receive any significant benefit, as the sediment still needs some time to drop out..
at a minimum i think you want to consider letting it sit for 24 hours once it has hit the 2c

 

[Fil]

I have just posted about chilling on a separate thread. As I have the as brewmaster with the internal coil could I crash chill using this or would it take too long. I thought about using the freezer part of the fridge to install the coil.

you would be better off with a shelf chiller or glycol chiler and an insulating jacket, but no reason at all why not, it will take longer the closer you get to the coolants temperature..

 

[Fore]

it can take a day or so to hit the target temp when initially chilling from fermentation temps so given the above plan the beer may not receive any significant benefit, as the sediment still needs some time to drop out..
at a minimum i think you want to consider letting it sit for 24 hours once it has hit the 2c

Thanks Fil. In the meantime I discovered minimum rest might be considered 1 week, so I realised it wasn't going to be in and out as I'd hoped. That's why I have no update, as still working on the wife for taking over the fridge for at least a week. Seems I might have gained an OK, reading between the lines anyway :mrgreen:.

 

[Fil]

Thanks Fil. In the meantime I discovered minimum rest might be considered 1 week, so I realised it wasn't going to be in and out as I'd hoped. That's why I have no update, as still working on the wife for taking over the fridge for at least a week. Seems I might have gained an OK, reading between the lines anyway :mrgreen:.

good luck

 

[Fore]

So here's the "before" shot (without the rest of the food I later piled round it). It's been 3.5 weeks in primary and the yeast hasn't visibly dropped any further since about 2 weeks in when the cellar temp dropped a few degrees. Just transferred to secondary for this fridge rest. I forgot to take a picture in primary, but I can say there was a clarity transition, but only from very creamy, to creamy. What you see in secondary is the average of that. Never done a crash cool before. I'll give it a week, maybe 2 if I see no significant change and we can live with the fridge like this. Let's see.

 

[Gunge]

Wish our fridge looked like that but the missus would soon be kicking off about the piles of rotting salad and other junk food turfed out to make room.

 

[Fore]

I'm not going to do a running 24h commentary, but this first 24h has showed quite some change when compared to the last few weeks. So it looks to be working. I'm just worried about the leek at the bottom of my fermenter :mrgreen:

 

[Ajhutch]

I'm not going to do a running 24h commentary, but this first 24h has showed quite some change when compared to the last few weeks. So it looks to be working. I'm just worried about the leek at the bottom of my fermenter :mrgreen:

You have a brilliant family. If I put an FV that size in the kitchen fridge I'd be out on my ear!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fore]

Well it's pretty conclusive I think. Bearing in mind it was refusing to fall clear. The yeast dropped about 3" a day. By the end of the first week the first wave had reached the bottom, but there was still some banding left. This banding dropped out in the second week. It's very very clear after 2 weeks; certainly good enough for a tripel as it stands.

 

[Brett74]

What you will find is that the colder you can get it, the faster it drops out, I have to Fermenting fridges, one can get down to 2 degrees and the other can go to -1, measured in the beer, the temp in the fridge goes down -4 or so, but it can't keep it there for long. The most ideal crash cooling setup would be a freezer, then you should have no problem taking your beer down as low as -2, I have read that as little as a day or two at those temps and it clears pronto! I am looking at a chest freezer. I have a Maxi 310, converted to glycol running a 64l SSbrewtech Chronicle, but that setup won't go below 2-3 degrees, I was a little disappointed by that.