Couple of Questions about Temperature

[BradleyW]

Morning all.
I have a couple of questions about temperatures during fermentation. I live in Spain and the area I live in is cold in winter but roasting in summer which means I only have a window from Nov-Apr to brew. I live in a second floor apartment so no garage or dedicated fridge. So, question number 1 is, if I want to brew a lager could I leave my fermenter outside on the terrace, providing it's shielded from UV light? Current temps are around 6C at the moment and will drop so this is thinking of spring time when it's around 10-15C. I know there are some lager strains that can brew at ale temps I'm just wondering if your "proper" lager would be possible?
Second question, although I live in a flat, my wife's family do have a family home in a village nearby with a massive bodega (wine cellar), they don't use it and have said I can basically use it to my heart's content brewing wise. The temperature is fairly stable throughout the year, around 14c - 16c but I'm not sure if that will be too cold for ale and too warm for lager?? Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

 

[terrym]

I would go for the bodega option for your lager, certainly in winter at 14*C. Informed opinion seems to be that yeasts like steady fermentation temperatures and placing the FV outside will probably lead to large temperature swings which is to be avoided. But if you brew your lager at 14*C you will need to raise the temperature at the end of the fermentation to 19/20*ish for a few days to carry out the diacetyl rest, before you go ahead and package it.

 

[BradleyW]

I would go for the bodega option for your lager, certainly in winter at 14*C. Informed opinion seems to be that yeasts like steady fermentation temperatures and placing the FV outside will probably lead to large temperature swings which is to be avoided. But if you brew your lager at 14*C you will need to raise the temperature at the end of the fermentation to 19/20*ish for a few days to carry out the diacetyl rest, before you go ahead and package it.

Great thanks! Bringing the temp up won't be a problem, I'll just bring it inside. Am I right in thinking 14c is too cold for ale?

 

[GerritT]

Kveik have a comfortability range from 20º to 40ºC.
But they're a tad more expensive than dry yeast, and maybe not available in España. Ebay has some sellers of dried kveik, the UK has some sellers of vials or pouches.

Linkie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kveik

 

[terrym]

16*C is about the lower limit for ale yeasts as far as I am aware although some would no doubt chug along at lower than that. In my view the biggest danger would be ending up with a stuck fermentation due to the low temperature which you couldn't get restarted.
If you want to brew ales in the winter and are allowed to brew in your flat why not use a brew belt or brew pad or even a water bath ( see here https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-set-up-a-water-bath-for-your-fv.66407/). And the same applies to the bodega if it has power and you could even install a brewfridge and brew both ale and lagers under the optimum temperature conditions.

 

[DavidDetroit]

+1 on the cost efficient heating device.

 

[Brew Dad]

I also ferment in a cellar, but with somewhat larger seasonal temperature swings than your in-laws cellar (Canada). 16c should be just fine for most ale strains, as the temperature inside the fermenter will be a few degrees higher during active fermentation. I find it is also best to keep the fermenter a few feet off the floor, as the temperature there (at least in my cellar) is several degrees cooler than ambient in the the rest of the cellar. As mentioned above, yeast prefers a pretty constant temperature, so cellars are ideal for fermenting, as it usually takes a looonggg time for outdoor temperatures to impact the ambient temperature in the cellar.

 

[BradleyW]

I also ferment in a cellar, but with somewhat larger seasonal temperature swings than your in-laws cellar (Canada). 16c should be just fine for most ale strains, as the temperature inside the fermenter will be a few degrees higher during active fermentation. I find it is also best to keep the fermenter a few feet off the floor, as the temperature there (at least in my cellar) is several degrees cooler than ambient in the the rest of the cellar. As mentioned above, yeast prefers a pretty constant temperature, so cellars are ideal for fermenting, as it usually takes a looonggg time for outdoor temperatures to impact the ambient temperature in the cellar.

Great! thanks for the advice. I'd like to get the hang of brewing before I start investing in fridges etc. and seeing as I have access to a big space for fermenting and storing I may as well take advantage of it

 

[matt76]

Pretty much what everyone else has said already..... Couple of specifics I'd mention that occurred to me when I first read your post.....

If you can get hold of Wyeast where you are then:
- 1728 Scottish Ale is an ale strain with quite a wide temperature range (about 13-24degC). I haven't used it myself though it's on my list...
- 2124 Bohemian Lager is a lager strain that is a bit unusual in that it's allegedly good all the from 7 up to 20degC.

Now this one I have used a couple of times - first time I started fermentation off too warm (~22degC) and ended up with diacetyl flavours. Second time I used a water bath + ice blocks and kept it down to about 17-18degC and it worked out great.

So there are options if you choose your yeast carefully, main things are:
- Try to keep the temperature fairly stable (avoid big temp swings such as from day to night)
- I believe production of dodgy flavours such as diacetyl tends to happen in the early phases of fermentation, especially lagers, so try to avoid pitching your yeast too warm

Cheers,

Matt

 

[BradleyW]

Pretty much what everyone else has said already..... Couple of specifics I'd mention that occurred to me when I first read your post.....

If you can get hold of Wyeast where you are then:
- 1728 Scottish Ale is an ale strain with quite a wide temperature range (about 13-24degC). I haven't used it myself though it's on my list...
- 2124 Bohemian Lager is a lager strain that is a bit unusual in that it's allegedly good all the from 7 up to 20degC.

Now this one I have used a couple of times - first time I started fermentation off too warm (~22degC) and ended up with diacetyl flavours. Second time I used a water bath + ice blocks and kept it down to about 17-18degC and it worked out great.

So there are options if you choose your yeast carefully, main things are:
- Try to keep the temperature fairly stable (avoid big temp swings such as from day to night)
- I believe production of dodgy flavours such as diacetyl tends to happen in the early phases of fermentation, especially lagers, so try to avoid pitching your yeast too warm

Cheers,

Matt

Awesome Matt! Thanks for the advice, I'll have look for those strains