Counterflow chillers?

[HisDudeness]

I have one (home made). The spiral around the inside isnt to impede the waterflow, but to make it flow around the pipe, thus increasing the cooling effect. I can drop my wort to pitching temp and fill my fv in about twenty minutes, all on gravity/waterflow. Brilliant bit of kit. To clean, I flush with a kettle of boiling water straight after use, then again before its next use, plus a flush through with starsan.

Thanks Manse. :thumb:
What length of hose/pipe would you think best for this type of chiller working with batches no bigger than 23L? What are your thoughts on using 8mm pipe as mentioned above?

 

[ManseMasher]

Thanks Manse. :thumb:
What length of hose/pipe would you think best for this type of chiller working with batches no bigger than 23L? What are your thoughts on using 8mm pipe as mentioned above?

I used 10m of 10mm pipe. My thoughts on 8mm? You might increase waterflow, but that depends on a) the id of your hosepipe and b) your mains water pressure.

Also, because you're going for gravity flow for your wort, 8mm will quite markedly reduce your wort flow, meaning you will definitely need good water flow to cool quickly. My advice - stick with 10mm mate.

 

[brumbrew]

To chime in on a semi related matter.

You cannot have your water supply disconnected if the property shows signs of occupancy.

If you rent an olotment or live near a tower block look for the free water!

Beat the brewers

Brumbrew

 

[rodabod]

Sorry, I should have added that mine is a counterflow heat-exchanger, like you find in domestic boilers. Probably a bit quicker than using a pipe/hose contraption.

The reason for using a pump is for consistent flow rate, plus you can get blockages or ver slow transfers when just using gravity if there is a lot of trub in your boil. This is probably not an issue for pipe/hose counterflow chillers.

 

[HisDudeness]

I used 10m of 10mm pipe. My thoughts on 8mm? You might increase waterflow, but that depends on a) the id of your hosepipe and b) your mains water pressure.

Also, because you're going for gravity flow for your wort, 8mm will quite markedly reduce your wort flow, meaning you will definitely need good water flow to cool quickly. My advice - stick with 10mm mate.

Yes the amount of coolant to wort will definitely go up but as you say the flow of wort will also go down so I guess its a bit of a trade off, the flow rate (if my rough estimation is correct) for 8mm will be approx 1/3 less than 10mm so if its about 20 mins to drain through 10mm possibly up to half an hour for 8mm? Which sort of defeats 1 of the original reasons for looking at this option in terms of having the tap running for less time :wha:

Do you use standard 15mm ID Hose around your 10mm tube Manse?

 

[ManseMasher]

I'll measure up and post some pics for you in a while.....

 

[ManseMasher]

I used 15mm id clear pvc pipe from Bodgit and Quit. x2 15mm equal T pieces and x2 15 - 10mm reducers. I had to file down the collet inside these so they would slide over the 10mm pipe. These screw in to one end of the equal T, and I made them water tight hy sealing them with solder. The spiral is single core earth cable that I soldered at regular intervals. Didn't take long tbh, and you can see the water 'corkscrewing' around when the tap is turned on. As it's gravity fed, I help it along a bit with a foot long drop from tap to coil.

 

[HisDudeness]

I used 15mm id clear pvc pipe from Bodgit and Quit. x2 15mm equal T pieces and x2 15 - 10mm reducers. I had to file down the collet inside these so they would slide over the 10mm pipe. These screw in to one end of the equal T, and I made them water tight hy sealing them with solder. The spiral is single core earth cable that I soldered at regular intervals. Didn't take long tbh, and you can see the water 'corkscrewing' around when the tap is turned on. As it's gravity fed, I help it along a bit with a foot long drop from tap to coil.

Brilliant thanks, this is very helpful :thumb:

 

[Fil]

while cfc chillers are more efficient, the plate and coil options both have 1 major flaw, you cant see inside to confirn the level of cleanliness and sanitation.

So i would suggest a straight pipe cfc in conjunction with tube cleaning brushes is a good option, slightly more expensive to build, but way cheaper than the plate chillers that can be dismantled..

 

[ManseMasher]

Do you need to see inside? If, as I said above, you flush it with boiling water before and straight after use, then starsan, do you need to be able to visually inspect? I would have thought not? Been using mine for a large number of brews, never any issues, so not something I would consider to be a 'major flaw', in my humble opinion.

 

[HisDudeness]

That other version looks pretty cool but it's a bit over engineered for my needs, I'd be happy that as long as the wort is well filtered to stop bits clogging it up a systematic flushing before and after use would be more than enough to keep it sanitary. Or you could recirculate boiling wort for 10mins at end of boil to be extra sure as well

 

[peebee]

while cfc chillers are more efficient, the plate and coil options both have 1 major flaw, you cant see inside to confirn the level of cleanliness and sanitation...

"Over-engineered" HisDudeness says, but have a look at mine! I'd seen those fabricated ones in Fil's post, but can't find where as I was looking for instructions. While they look complicated, there is no bending large lengths of pipe into coils (now that's complicated!), they make a relatively tiny package to hide away, and if you want you can use 15mm internal pipes (although this thread has definitely argued for 10mm, or even 8mm) .

So, Fil, you got any links to that style of cooler?

And for those wondering... Yes, that is a heating element making up part of my cooler. As I said before my cooler also seconds as a HERMS coil, and (thirds?) as a RIMS heater! Why do things by halves when you can waste vast tracks of your life farting about with things like this!

 

[HisDudeness]

Put wheels on that and I think you'll have yourself a steam train!

 

[Fil]

akaik ive only seen 1 of the shelf straight pipe chiller, called something like a cyclone or tornado on a US homebrew shop, mine is made from basic components 14 x 10mm x 500mm x 0.25mm walled SS tube sourced thru an ebay auction from a seller wh bundles up lengths of thin walled tube. the copper ends are 2 x 22mm T pieces joined and soldered to fix into an 'H' and are terminated with bungs thru which the SS transport tubes are pushed, the 1" id pvc hose is secured onto the copper end feed T's with the beer transport tubes are connected with friction fitted 3/8" ID Silicone tube with a thick wall selecting SS rather than copper meant longer length and thinner walls in the tube are needed, old redundant coax 'cheapernet' network cable was wound round the SS beer tubes to negate the natural curl of the pvc jacket tube and perhaps promote a turbulant path..

relying on friction fitting and sealing and jubillee clips provides for flexibility in format as evident by the first tests to determine a good size..

i ended up with a cassette
14 x lengths for a 6.5meter length in total of chilled by water tube
the control valve pictured is now redundant, flow being controlled by a pump on the kettle exit, chills down to pitching temp at a flow of just over 2.5l per min and about 1/2 tap pressure of cold water

the friction seals and jubilee clips need a lil pampering before use each time, just checking under pressure outside and 5 mins tweaking.. but it can be cleaned with a brush sanitised easily and by simply unconnecting 1 end of each connecting silicone tube end can be stored dry with confidence..

the 14X of each fitting however did raise the build cost

 

[paul3944]

Thanks paul your chiller looks great, how long roughly did it take to pass a batch through the chiller?

Sorry for the slow reply, about 20 mins to get about 24 litres in the fermenter.

The only other issue I've encountered and not seen mentioned so far is keeping the thing clean. After a couple of weeks the exterior of the copper will dull and start turning green/blue in places I presume this is occurring insider the pipe also.

Before use i run boiling water thru the coil for a couple of mins (cooling water switched off) to steilise the pipe and finished off with a liberal amount of star san poured thru.

 

[ManseMasher]

Sorry for the slow reply, about 20 mins to get about 24 litres in the fermenter.

The only other issue I've encountered and not seen mentioned so far is keeping the thing clean. After a couple of weeks the exterior of the copper will dull and start turning green/blue in places I presume this is occurring insider the pipe also.

Before use i run boiling water thru the coil for a couple of mins (cooling water switched off) to steilise the pipe and finished off with a liberal amount of star san poured thru.

The outside of the pipe is in almost constant contact with water. If you look at my pictures you will see the exterior copper (that outside the hosepipe) is dull, but not turning green/blue. Inside your pipe would look the same, but every time you use it you are pushing a mild acid through it (wort), and then flushing it after with boiling water, and starsan (phosphoric acid, amongst others). As I said above, done many brews with mine, with no issues.

 

[peebee]

...

The only other issue I've encountered and not seen mentioned so far is keeping the thing clean. After a couple of weeks the exterior of the copper will dull and start turning green/blue in places I presume this is occurring insider the pipe also.

...

The dreaded verdigris! But it only forms in contact with air. And as ManseMasher said; all those acidic liquids probably see it off on the inside.

I keep my copper cooler filled with water between brews to avoid verdigris, but only because with my setup I can (permanently plumbed in). The "dull" look you actually want (pacifying) but acidity does strip that too resulting in shiny copper.

 

[peebee]

akaik ive only seen 1 of the shelf straight pipe chiller, called something like a cyclone or tornado on a US homebrew shop, mine is made from basic components 14 x 10mm x 500mm x 0.25mm walled SS tube sourced thru an ebay auction from a seller wh bundles up lengths of thin walled tube. the copper ends are 2 x 22mm T pieces joined and soldered to fix into an 'H' and are terminated with bungs thru which the SS transport tubes are pushed, the 1" id pvc hose is secured onto the copper end feed T's with the beer transport tubes are connected with friction fitted 3/8" ID Silicone tube with a thick wall selecting SS rather than copper meant longer length and thinner walls in the tube are needed, old redundant coax 'cheapernet' network cable was wound round the SS beer tubes to negate the natural curl of the pvc jacket tube and perhaps promote a turbulant path...

Thanks Fil! "Bungs", that was the bit I was missing. Couldn't work out how they were put together at such low expense. You might have commented that all those "Tees" were expensive, but not when you add up the cost of the alternative (which as I've already mentioned, means figuring out how to build those coils! You can get ready coiled SS from the States via Ebay, but the price...!).

Like your reuse of an unwanted downstairs loo as a brewery! Exactly what I did. But I did get rid of the loo pan first!

 

[Fil]

Thanks Fil! "Bungs", that was the bit I was missing. Couldn't work out how they were put together at such low expense. You might have commented that all those "Tees" were expensive, but not when you add up the cost of the alternative (which as I've already mentioned, means figuring out how to build those coils! You can get ready coiled SS from the States via Ebay, but the price...!).

Like your reuse of an unwanted downstairs loo as a brewery! Exactly what I did. But I did get rid of the loo pan first!

Ha the bog wasnt the brewery, that was on the patio outside but i could sit the kettle in there on a rainy day to test the chilling.. i will soon have a completed brewshed sorted,, and have moved up there just not finalised everything..
14 x of any bit becomes expensive, even bungs and jubilee clips.. thing is i couldnt find thin walled SS tube any longer than 500mm.. And i had to bid/buy 2 x bundles of 10 tubes,,

the coax i used to hold the jacket tubes off the beer tube have steel braid and thats rusting at the flex ends ;( and if does need a leak test before use and a few bungs pushing home..

But it works a treat