Counterflow chillers?

[HisDudeness]

Does anyone on here use one of these? What are your thoughts on them and any pros cons of this method of chilling. I am interested because although I have an immersion chiller that I got with my BIAB set I have a few concerns about its use.
First although it is a lot quicker than the sink and ice method I used before it still takes 20-30minutes depending on tap water temp to come down to below 30 degrees, I wouldn't be too worried about this but we are on a meter and I am constantly getting it in the neck from you know who when the tap is left running!
Second to achieve that rate of cooling I need to stir the wort around constantly to get as much liquid in contact with the coil as possible which seems like an potential avenue for infected wort with the lid off the boiler as it goes through the iffy temp range for bacterial growth.
A plate chiller looks nice but they are expensive and may need extra pumps etc so this seems like the next best option and looks like something that should be relatively easy to build for around £40ish?
From what I can gather they should drop temp close to coolant temp in about the time it takes to drain the boiler which I would hope could be something like 10-15mins for a 23l batch?

 

[Graz]

It's what I'd be looking to make as and when I move away from beer kits to proper beer.

Something like this looks easy enough to do http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=182236

 

[HisDudeness]

It's what I'd be looking to make as and when I move away from beer kits to proper beer.

Something like this looks easy enough to do http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=182236

Yes thats the sort of design I am considering, should be well within my botching capabilities :ugeek:

 

[rodabod]

I use one. See recent threads where I have commented. I recommend re-circulating, but you can do a single pass in probably about 5 minutes as you drain your boiler - may only get you to the low 20s depending on water temp though. Recirculating lets you hit your pitching temp bang-on.

You will want a pump. Again, these have been discussed in this forum.

 

[mirsultankhan]

Yeah i heard they are mega efficient.

 

[peebee]

I use one, similar to the "pipe-in-pipe" one you've got a link to. Can't help thinking that one in the link looks a bit small? I've got about 5m of 15mm (don't have to worry about clogging up!) inside 28mm copper. Because it uses such big diameter pipe I didn't try to coil it, its arranged in a back-and-forth arrangement (guess I enjoy soldering!).

Reputation has it that they are very efficient. So I couldn't understand why it was taking me 3/4hour to cool 40litres of boiled wort to 20degreesC. Until I figured out the mains water is 18degreesC! Roll on winter! Working with a 2degree difference; guess that does still mean "efficient".

The other advantage: As long as a brewery setup allows for it; it doubles as a HERMS coil!

 

[mirsultankhan]

I use one. See recent threads where I have commented. I recommend re-circulating, but you can do a single pass in probably about 5 minutes as you drain your boiler - may only get you to the low 20s depending on water temp though. Recirculating lets you hit your pitching temp bang-on.

You will want a pump. Again, these have been discussed in this forum.

Most ones I have seen on videos work on gravity

 

[HisDudeness]

I use one. See recent threads where I have commented. I recommend re-circulating, but you can do a single pass in probably about 5 minutes as you drain your boiler - may only get you to the low 20s depending on water temp though. Recirculating lets you hit your pitching temp bang-on.

You will want a pump. Again, these have been discussed in this forum.

Thanks, apart from not being able to recirculate any particular reason why just using gravity feed would not be able to do the job?
I guess I could still run it through the chiller again if I tipped the FV back into the boiler, but I figured you can control the flow of coolant vs wort and you have a sufficiently long cooler you should be able to get the temps lower?

 

[mirsultankhan]

Thanks, apart from not being able to recirculate any particular reason why just using gravity feed would not be able to do the job?
I guess I could still run it through the chiller again if I tipped the FV back into the boiler, but I figured you can control the flow of coolant vs wort and you have a sufficiently long cooler you should be able to get the temps lower?

surely the pressure from the mains would be enough to push your cold water through the chiller and gravity enough to push your wort through the copper?

 

[HisDudeness]

surely the pressure from the mains would be enough to push your cold water through the chiller and gravity enough to push your wort through the copper?

It must be because as you say that's how a lot of the ones I have seen online seem to work, I assume if you want to decrease the temp you can reduce flow of wort and increase flow of coolant which again reduces the need for pump? Except in the case of recirculating where you lose the effect of gravity

 

[mirsultankhan]

It must be because as you say that's how a lot of the ones I have seen online seem to work, I assume if you want to decrease the temp you can reduce flow of wort and increase flow of coolant which again reduces the need for pump? Except in the case of recirculating where you lose the effect of gravity

yes, also it helps if you put something on the copper pipe to retard the flow of water, like this Aussie dude.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf-lTFpR2c[/ame]

 

[paul3944]

I made one of these a couple of months ago with all of the bits from Wickes.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53720

Tbh it all depends on the temp of your water going in thru the cooler. During the Summer I got a brew on which required 2 passes thru the chiller to get to pitching temp. The collected run off water was about 30 - 35 litres.

As an experiment I hope to get a brew on next month and test the chiller with cooler water.

Regards
Paul

 

[HisDudeness]

yes, also it helps if you put something on the copper pipe to retard the flow of water, like this Aussie dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf-lTFpR2c

Good vid thanks, like the idea of the copper spiral coil not sure I would have the patience to do that for 10m of pipe!

 

[HisDudeness]

I made one of these a couple of months ago with all of the bits from Wickes.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53720

Tbh it all depends on the temp of your water going in thru the cooler. During the Summer I got a brew on which required 2 passes thru the chiller to get to pitching temp. The collected run off water was about 30 - 35 litres.

As an experiment I hope to get a brew on next month and test the chiller with cooler water.

Regards
Paul

Thanks paul your chiller looks great, how long roughly did it take to pass a batch through the chiller?

 

[mirsultankhan]

Good vid thanks, like the idea of the copper spiral coil not sure I would have the patience to do that for 10m of pipe!

you have inspired me HisDudeness, I am going to make one which i will also use as a Herms system simply pumping in hot water from my HLT rather than cold water from the mains. All that one needs is a length of hose, 10mm pipe, two 15mm copper tees, two 15mm to 10mm reducers, four jubilee clamps, two small lengths of 15mm copper pipe and some hose connectors.

 

[mirsultankhan]

I wonder if 8mm pipe would be even better than 10mm to increase the cold water to hot water ratio, thus increasing efficiency? im sure all my present plastic hoses for racking canes and bottling wands are 8mm. hmmmm.

 

[geetee]

I visited the Ship Inn in Low Newton, Northumberland which has a brewery attached and the brewer there uses a home made CFC to chill his 4 barrel output. He rolled out a hosepipe from under the bench and it was exactly as described here he has used it for 20 years or so. Granted he did connect it to a chiller unit but it produces instantly cooled wort.

 

[HisDudeness]

I wonder if 8mm pipe would be even better than 10mm to increase the cold water to hot water ratio, thus increasing efficiency? im sure all my present plastic hoses for racking canes and bottling wands are 8mm. hmmmm.

Weird! I have been contemplating exactly the same thing myself all day, I had the same thoughts regarding efficiency and I believe you can also interface 8mm couplers with 1/4 bsp fittings

 

[mirsultankhan]

Weird! I have been contemplating exactly the same thing myself all day, I had the same thoughts regarding efficiency and I believe you can also interface 8mm couplers with 1/4 bsp fittings

yes indeed. I have found that 15mm copper pipe fits very snuggle into a garden hose. This will form the outer connection, through that will go either 10mm or 8mm copper pipe. One end will connect into the hose and the other end will need to be sealed with a reducer, 15mm to 10mm or 8mm. A tee will be needed in the middle for the cold water in and out and a way to connect this to a tap or hose and thats basically all that is needed.

 

[ManseMasher]

I have one (home made). The spiral around the inside isnt to impede the waterflow, but to make it flow around the pipe, thus increasing the cooling effect. I can drop my wort to pitching temp and fill my fv in about twenty minutes, all on gravity/waterflow. Brilliant bit of kit. To clean, I flush with a kettle of boiling water straight after use, then again before its next use, plus a flush through with starsan.