Cornelius Kegs - which size beer line?

[JackDR]

Just kegged a stout, I have bought an Intertap G2 tap with a stout attachment, I bought it with some beer line and JG fittings etc, the beer line is 3/16" (4.8mm), is this ok? It seems really thin.

I can see how this would help to reduce the amount of beer sat in the line between pouring, but would this mean it would take ages to pour a pint? Would 3/8" pipe be better?

I will be using 2-3 meters of it from a fridge.

 

[Litmus]

HI JDR,

I started out with 3/8 and I hit issues with foaming, I then moved to a 2m longer line (5m total) and 3/16 and that has worked really well for me.

It does take a little longer to pour on 3/16, but I produces (in my experience) better beer. That said my foaming issue may have been solved by much longer 3/8 lines, but I never tried that.

The other thing the 3/16 has allowed me to do is run my serving pressure higher without foaming.

Hope this helps

 

[JackDR]

OK thanks, will be using 70/30 nitrogen mix with stout faucet, don't know if that will change anything, it should be ready in about 2 weeks time I think, so I'll just give it a go with what I've got for now and see how I get on.

What dispensing pressure would you recommend for a stout?

And what pressure would I force "carbonate" it at, even though its 70/30 nitrogen/co2?

And what size pipe should I use for the gas?

 

[marlon]

Just kegged a stout, I have bought an Intertap G2 tap with a stout attachment, I bought it with some beer line and JG fittings etc, the beer line is 3/16" (4.8mm), is this ok? It seems really thin.

I can see how this would help to reduce the amount of beer sat in the line between pouring, but would this mean it would take ages to pour a pint? Would 3/8" pipe be better?

I will be using 2-3 meters of it from a fridge.

I use exactly that set up. From corny in fridge, through 3/16" beer line, (it is thin), 3 metres long. Yes it is a little slow, but I like to be able to carb my lagers well. I can do this and not have a foaming problem. If you don't like too much carbonation you could cut the beer line shorter, a bit at a time, until you have the right balance between carbonation and pouring time. :thumb:

 

[Litmus]

OK thanks, will be using 70/30 nitrogen mix with stout faucet, don't know if that will change anything, it should be ready in about 2 weeks time I think, so I'll just give it a go with what I've got for now and see how I get on.

What dispensing pressure would you recommend for a stout?

And what pressure would I force "carbonate" it at, even though its 70/30 nitrogen/co2?

And what size pipe should I use for the gas?

Ah so if your running a Stout, the 3/16 I think is the way to go, you are going to want to run a Stout at a higher pressure this is because c02 makes up a smaller % of the gas you are using and the high pressure will help keep the correct amount of CO2 in solution, oh and you might want to consider a Stout tap. The Stout taps have a small plate inside which strips out the CO2 as you pour it and that create that beautiful cascade / waterfall effect in the glass. However is you already have a tap just start with that, bear in mind Stout taps work at high pressure standard taps might not.

Pressure wise, the only thing to consider is line resistance. 3/16 loses 3 PSI per foot, so whatever you have at the tank:

Tank pressure - 3Xhose length in Ft = pressure at tap (in PSI)

The hose material can effect this also and temperature. I would start at the lower end for Stout and other nitrogen-reliant keg beers you can look up temp vs PSI here http://beersmith.com/kegging.pdf

If you have issues with foaming it might be over carbonated, turn off the gas take the pressure off the keg (not all the way) let it stand and try again.

Hope this helps


PS, gas lines I use 3/8. I see you already have a Stout tap, sorry skimmed the first read.

 

[JackDR]

Thanks for the good info litmus and marlon, will have a read of the link in the morning

 

[JackDR]

Ah so if your running a Stout, the 3/16 I think is the way to go, you are going to want to run a Stout at a higher pressure this is because c02 makes up a smaller % of the gas you are using and the high pressure will help keep the correct amount of CO2 in solution, oh and you might want to consider a Stout tap. The Stout taps have a small plate inside which strips out the CO2 as you pour it and that create that beautiful cascade / waterfall effect in the glass. However is you already have a tap just start with that, bear in mind Stout taps work at high pressure standard taps might not.

Pressure wise, the only thing to consider is line resistance. 3/16 loses 3 PSI per foot, so whatever you have at the tank:

Tank pressure - 3Xhose length in Ft = pressure at tap (in PSI)

The hose material can effect this also and temperature. I would start at the lower end for Stout and other nitrogen-reliant keg beers you can look up temp vs PSI here http://beersmith.com/kegging.pdf

If you have issues with foaming it might be over carbonated, turn off the gas take the pressure off the keg (not all the way) let it stand and try again.

Hope this helps


PS, gas lines I use 3/8. I see you already have a Stout tap, sorry skimmed the first read.

So looking at the table in the above PDF, Irish Dry Stout should be 1.6-2.0 CO2 volume, so I'll go with 1.8.

If I want to serve it at say 12 degrees Celsius, that is 53 Fahrenheit, therefore in the carbonation chart I want it to be 10PSI.

Is that saying it should be 10PSI at the tap? Therefore if I am using about 8ft of pipe, I would add an additional (3x8ft)= 24PSI at the keg? Meaning I would have 34 PSI pressure in the keg?

I'm new to this but surely that isn't right? :-?

Also your theory about losing 3PSI per foot would mean I'd have 0PSI at the tap?

I'm confused now haha

 

[Litmus]

So looking at the table in the above PDF, Irish Dry Stout should be 1.6-2.0 CO2 volume, so I'll go with 1.8.

If I want to serve it at say 12 degrees Celsius, that is 53 Fahrenheit, therefore in the carbonation chart I want it to be 10PSI.

Is that saying it should be 10PSI at the tap? Therefore if I am using about 8ft of pipe, I would add an additional (3x8ft)= 24PSI at the keg? Meaning I would have 34 PSI pressure in the keg?

I'm new to this but surely that isn't right? :-?

Also your theory about losing 3PSI per foot would mean I'd have 0PSI at the tap?

I'm confused now haha

Ah, OK so I missed explaining a bit here.

Pressure rises as an exponential curve so at the lower end your right at 3 PSI your unlikely to lose 3 PSI per foot it will be less.

Of course with the tap closed and 3 PSI in the tank you will have 3 PSI at the tap, however once the tap is opened and the beer begins to follow you will then have to account for resistance of the line.

This video might help you visualise what 20 PSI looks like when pouring a beer on a 3/16 line.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfTO4P_ryDA[/ame]

As I mentioned that was a wheat beer, the viscosity of your Stout will be higher accounting for the potential high PSI value needed.

Hope that helps

 

[The Idiot]

I tend to use 3/8 inch beer line, but coil up around 1.5 metres of 3/16 inch beer line in the middle of the run. This reduces foaming and allows the use of taps with 3/8 inch connectors which are more common.

 

[JackDR]

OK cheers, I gathered it would be exponential, but I guess it would only lose as much as 3PSI over the first couple of foot.

Always had it in my head that it needed to be about 30PSI or something, and then drastically lowered to around 5PSI for serving.

Apologies for all the questions, just struggling to find much info for a Stout, but what pressure would you recommend setting it to? I'm hoping for something as close to as I can as how Guinness Pours.

 

[Litmus]

OK cheers, I gathered it would be exponential, but I guess it would only lose as much as 3PSI over the first couple of foot.

Always had it in my head that it needed to be about 30PSI or something, and then drastically lowered to around 5PSI for serving.

Apologies for all the questions, just struggling to find much info for a Stout, but what pressure would you recommend setting it to? I'm hoping for something as close to as I can as how Guinness Pours.

Never apologies for asking questions, when it comes to brewing there is only really one way and that's "what works for you." Anything is just a guide.

I really enjoy hearing about what people are doing and it helps me review what I'm doing and keep me honest regarding my next steps and plans.

First time I put and IPA in a keg it came out like ice cream, even with about 1/2 a PSI of pressure. Some reading and asking questions and I got to hear (and 3/16 line lol)

Document how you get on and share it here, I would love to hear what you saw and tweaked!? :thumb:

thanks L