Conversion rate and efficiency

[Polcho]

I keep seeing these terms used.
I can’t find a good explanation/how to guide either on line or in the couple of books I have.
Efficiency does not appear in the index of John Palmers book. Perhaps it comes up somewhere, if someone knows what page, that would be helpful.
Or if anyone has an article, post or video they could point to, thanks.

 

[RichardM]

Try looking for "brew house efficiency" and "mash efficiency".

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Efficiency is a measure of how much sugar you have managed to extract from the grain compared to the maximum extraction that would be possible.

Tables of maximum extract potential are available to tell you what the maximum is for a particular grain - Pilsner, Pale, Crystal, etc. The information given is points per pound per gallon. Here is a link to one example:

http://beersmith.com/grain-list/
Using the table above you will see that Pilsner malt from Germany yields a maximum potential of 1.037. This means 1 pound of Pilsner malt mashed in 1 gallon of water will give you a maximum gravity reading of 1.037 (or 37 points) if you could achieve 100% conversion. Do remember though that these are US gallons.

The two efficiency measures most people are interested in are mash efficiency which just looks at how much sugar you get out from the mash and perhaps of far more interest, brew-house efficiency which looks at the efficiency of your whole system.

For BH Efficiency, using your recipe you have to work out for each grain what the maximum extract would be. So if you are brewing a Pilsner using 5Kg (11 lbs) of German Pilsner malt and want a 23 litre (6 US gallons) batch in your fermenter, the maximum points would be

11 x 37 / 6 = 67.8 so a gravity of 1.068

If when you measure your OG you read 1.048 your efficiency is

48 / 68 = 70.58%

If you had added other malts in your grain bill, to calculate the maximum potential gravity you would have to work out the maximum points for each grain and add them together. If, for example you had also added 200g (0.44 lbs) of Acid malt (max potential per pound per gallon of 1.027) the maximum gravity from this addition would have been

0.44 x 27 / 6 = 1.98

and the total maximum gravity for that grain bill would have been

67.8 + 1.98 = 69.78 so about 1.070

 

[obscure]

@Hazelwood Brewery sums up pretty well what efficiency is and how to calculate it. One thing I will add is that the key thing when creating recipes and more importantly when using someone else’s is knowing what your efficiency is. For example I am planning to brew a batch of Summer Breeze this weekend (a recipe created by Hazelwood and posted in this forum) however my efficiency is lower than his so I will be scaling up my base malt to compensate.

When I first brewed this I didn’t think to check what his efficiency was assuming it was about 75% and scaled accordingly not realising that at the time his efficiency was lower than that leading to a beer that while nice was far stronger than expected, the key point being if you use someone else’s recipe make damm sure your know their efficiency and your own.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

One thing I will add is that the key thing when creating recipes and more importantly when using someone else’s is knowing what your efficiency is. For example I am planning to brew a batch of Summer Breeze this weekend (a recipe created by Hazelwood and posted in this forum) however my efficiency is lower than his so I will be scaling up my base malt to compensate.

That’s a good point

Incidentally, version 2 of Summer Breeze is better than version 1. Substitute half the Vienna malt with Pilsner malt. I’ve also backed off a little on the bittering addition. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I keep seeing these terms used.
I can’t find a good explanation/how to guide either on line or in the couple of books I have.
Efficiency does not appear in the index of John Palmers book. Perhaps it comes up somewhere, if someone knows what page, that would be helpful.
Or if anyone has an article, post or video they could point to, thanks.

This might be helpful

https://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

 

[Covrich]

@Hazelwood Brewery sums up pretty well what efficiency is and how to calculate it. One thing I will add is that the key thing when creating recipes and more importantly when using someone else’s is knowing what your efficiency is. For example I am planning to brew a batch of Summer Breeze this weekend (a recipe created by Hazelwood and posted in this forum) however my efficiency is lower than his so I will be scaling up my base malt to compensate.

When I first brewed this I didn’t think to check what his efficiency was assuming it was about 75% and scaled accordingly not realising that at the time his efficiency was lower than that leading to a beer that while nice was far stronger than expected, the key point being if you use someone else’s recipe make damm sure your know their efficiency and your own.

I totally agree, and whilst some chase getting bigger and higher efficiency I think consistency is the key.. if you know your efficiency is only 65% for example, thats fine because you know what you need to get the correct recipie

 

[obscure]

I totally agree, and whilst some chase getting bigger and higher efficiency I think consistency is the key.. if you know your efficiency is only 65% for example, thats fine because you know what you need to get the correct recipie

Efficiency only really becomes an issue when you are pushing at the limits of how much grain your system can handle, I do stove top BIAB brewing and arguably the upper limit I can handle grain wise is about 3.5KG which means on my standard batch size I will struggle to go above 1.060 gravity wise, so have to cut my batch size a bit if I want to go higher. By contrast someone with 80% efficiency could probably push it to 1.080. I don’t brew many beers where this becomes an issue but it is something worth bearing in mind.

 

[Sandimas]

I totally agree, and whilst some chase getting bigger and higher efficiency I think consistency is the key.. if you know your efficiency is only 65% for example, thats fine because you know what you need to get the correct recipie

+1

I get 68% every time with my BIAB setup so I know I'll need more grain for recipes spec'd to 70 or 75% efficiency. It's a bit frustrating when you see recipes specifying grain amounts rather than percentages, and no efficiency stated. The same for hops without AA values, which can vary greatly. Published recipes are only a guide that you need to factor in your efficiency and your ingredients.

 

[crescent city Mike]

I keep seeing these terms used.
I can’t find a good explanation/how to guide either on line or in the couple of books I have.
Efficiency does not appear in the index of John Palmers book. Perhaps it comes up somewhere, if someone knows what page, that would be helpful.
Or if anyone has an article, post or video they could point to, thanks.

https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/calculating-brewhouse-efficiency/https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/improving-brewhouse-efficiency/
I don't think that brewhouse efficiency should be anyone's ultimate goal. At some point, your return on investment, (time, expenditure on equipment, etc.) becomes moot. It is, however, a gauge to measure how your techniques and skills are improving.

 

[Clint]

Some great points mentioned!! I like the range from technical to basic.
For me it's consistency and enjoyment.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I agree with the above points, recent NEIPA managed 84% efficiency up from my usual 76%, used a finer crush but what a pain in terms of time and difficult sparge. Environmentally good to be efficient and perhaps with cost but mentally sometimes not worth it.

Brewersfriend tool very good. I think the point about the recipe anticipated efficiency also wise. Clone brews for example assumes 70% efficiency in the recipes.

There are some simple ways to nudge the efficiency, pH, water treatment, milling and they're worth tinkering with.

 

[Polcho]

Thanks everybody, very helpful.

 

[MickDundee]

I totally agree, and whilst some chase getting bigger and higher efficiency I think consistency is the key.. if you know your efficiency is only 65% for example, thats fine because you know what you need to get the correct recipie

This. I used to get 65% like clockwork on my old BIAB system and it made everything very easy.

I’ve had my all in one for just over a year now and I still struggle for consistency - the majority of the time I hit the 70% mark but have had some random brews that have been anywhere from 65-80%

 

[Polcho]

In terms of an all in one system. What would be a good outcome, assuming the process was correct.

 

[Clint]

A work mate has recently bought the all in one from Brew keg tap and started with an efficiency setting at 70% but as he got used to the system and worked out what he should be doing he's now getting 85%+.

 

[Covrich]

In terms of an all in one system. What would be a good outcome, assuming the process was correct.

I have a 45l hopcat I mash in the basket but as its quite big i full volume recirc and remove teh grains (no sparge).. get about 70% everytime..

But people will use different techniques and most will sparge and get 80%.

SO its kind of what works for you, personally I love the simplicity grains in ... grains out done

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

As a few others have said, the greatest consistency and not the greatest efficiency is key here. Just like @MickDundee I got 65% BHE every brew when I did BIAB. I moved to a 35l Brewzilla a few months ago but fearful of the reports of stock mashes and stuck sparges I used it much the same as BIAB at first with a thin mash and limited short sparge and got the same 65%. Recently I’ve been getting a bit braver with a thicker mash and longer sparge using the calculated mash and sparge volumes for my set up from Brewers Friend and my BHE is now at 82%. The only annoying thing is I only got there gradually so the last few times I’ve been overshooting my OG and have a good few gallons of beer that is slightly above the sessionable abv I’d have liked for the summer

 

[Tanglefoot]

I BIAB no sparge and regularly get around 70%, my last brew was 73%
Using Brewfather it will calculate this and mash efficiency for you, as a recipe and as a finished batch
Useful as you can see how tweaks in the brewday can affect them both - e.g squeeze bag, longer mash,
more controlled boil etc.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

The expected efficiency is about 65%-75% for BIAB, 75%-85% for brewing systems, and 90%-95% for professional setups.

I raised my BIAB efficiency from around 67% to 80% by changing my sparge process.