Constant Ruined Brews - Oxidised?

[Devlin]

Hi all

I am hitting a point of frustration with this homebrew business that's causing me to despair. Practically all of my previous brews appear to have oxidation problems that's causing them to fail.

I'll admit my practices at first were less than ideal, I am learning as I go along. However, for my last two brews I've made a real effort to try not introduce oxygen into the beer, particularly during the bottling process.

I bottle straight from the carboy, no secondary used and sanitise each bottle correctly. I also purchased a brewing wand, attached to the siphon & placed it right down to the bottom of the bottle and ensured no bubbles making their way into the beer as I poured.

Yet I find again that after a few days in the bottle (all kept in a cool, dark place) an ominous dark cloud begin to appear near the top of the beer. Just over a week in & this dark cloud now permeates the whole bottle. I cracked one open today and as I feared it's the usual - dark, murky colour, almost toffee-like taste, zero hop flavour. Ruined. See picture.

Any suggestions where I am going wrong? Is my bottling technique still to blame? Would a bottling bucket help?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Clint]

Bottle headspace?? When using the wand ensure you fill the bottle completely to the top,the displacement left by the wand leaves enough headspace.

 

[Devlin]

Hi Clint

Been quite consistent in that area. Generally as per the picture attached to this post. That too much?

 

[simon12]

Why do you think oxidation is the problem?

 

[dad_of_jon]

fill to the brim with the bottling wand as you pull wand out you get a reduced amount of headspace compared to your photo.

 

[Clint]

Yeah..good point. Could be yeast or hop debris. Plus what's the longest you've waited before opening one? Here's a wheat I bottled yesterday...it did have six days cold crash.

 

[Devlin]

Hi simon12

It's a good point, and truthfully, I just don't know. I thought oxidisation was the problem based on what I have read about it's effects. I'm at a loss as to what other avenues there are to explore to resolve the problem.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Devlin, im new to this game so I could be wrong, I would start with the bottles try some pet bottles as well as the swing tops, carbonated water bottles owt whats had fizz in it, I suspect your swing tops are not air tight, that's were I would start

 

[Devlin]

Thanks all

@Clint - generally stick with the standard 2 week minimum. But on previous brews, even after 3-4 weeks it's the same. Possibly even worse.
@dad_of_jon - I could certainly give that a go. At this point, I'll try anything if it helps even a bit.
@Rodcx500z - again, not a bad suggestion. A common denominator amongst all the failures, to be fair, are the bottles. Got them from Wilkos.

 

[Sandimas]

So what's it meant to look like? If you gave us your recipe and technique we might be able to help a bit more. Are you saying it changes colour after bottling?

 

[The Baron]

more info will help as Darrell says also a real shot in the dark which I do not assume will be correct but are you using dark brown bottles or clear as they could be skunking if you are using clear as I said just a off the cuff long shot. But I am sure with more info we will get to the bottom of it between us

 

[An Ankoù]

In view of what you say, it doesn't sound like oxidation to me. I'm much less scrupulous than you and I've never seen this dark cloud of doom forming in my beer. That's not to say I've got an answer except look elsewhere.

 

[The Baron]

In view of what you say, it doesn't sound like oxidation to me. I'm much less scrupulous than you and I've never seen this dark cloud of doom forming in my beer. That's not to say I've got an answer except look elsewhere.

I too think you need to look elsewhere it is obviously in your process somewhere and full/more info on what you do prior to bottling i.e recipe and brewing process

 

[Devlin]

Thanks guys

Appreciate the rally on this one.

The past four brews I’ve used the same recipe based off a gallon brew site but goes something like:

Mash:

- 1.2kg of Golden Promise. I have used the same malt batch since day 1. Had this for 6 months now.
- 3.5l mash water + 3.5l batch sparge. Tap water, I might add.
- 60 min mash @ 68c.

- 60 min boil in trusty Wilko 7l pot
- An early bittering hop followed by a 15 then 0 min hop addition. All hops kept in freezer, although not in full-on airtight bags.

- Cool down by placing pot in icy water, generally takes about 20 mins. Always leave the lid off, exposed to air.

- Sanitise carboy as best as I can before funnelling the wort in.
- A vigorous shake to aerate the wort
- Pitch approx 1 teaspoon of US-05, followed by another vigorous shake. I’ll admit, sometimes don’t sanitise the teaspoon.
- The yeast has been in my fridge for about 6 months now, I might add.

I have one of those stick-on temp gauges and admittedly, without any sort of proper temp control, I see the temp go up to about 25c during active fermentation, but settles back down to about 22 once done. The last batch I attempted to keep the temp a steady 22c but doubtful I really achieved it consistently.

The beer after fermentation looks a lovely golden yellow colour, quite hazy, with a large amount of the hops floating on top, which sinks back down 2-3 days after fermentation. I don’t open for dry hopping but keep it simple, all appears to be OK.

Two weeks after brew day - bottling day - when I open the carboy bung the smell is nothing short of heavenly.

Even with the bottling wand it’s a bit fiddly, a 2-man job for sure. The first bottle might not be so smooth but get into the flow quite quickly. The bottles are from Wilko, clear, swing-top, 500ml, all well sanitised. I’ve yet to produce a beer truly drinkable so wondering if these bottles need replacing too.

Apologies if I haven’t given as much detail as is needed.

Looking at the above, any quick wins, or obvious gotchas coming to mind?

Thank you once again.

 

[Sandimas]

Your recipe and technique look OKish to me - apart from the temperature, too hot: 18-21C is more ideal. But this shouldn't change the colour.What about hop weights: what IBUs are you aiming for? How much late hopping is there? If you can't taste the hops you need more, I'm a lower-volume brewer and recently I've been adding 20% more hops as I too haven't been able to taste them as much as I should, this has worked for mwe.

Is there any way you can increase your volume a bit to say 10 or 12L? It's hard to keep a consistent mash temperature with smaller volume brews.

You seem convinced it's your Wilko bottles but I'm 99.9% sure it isn't. If it was an infection of some sort, it would take months to take hold and you really would notice it.

Finally, where are you located? It's probably worth hooking up with another brewer locally to taste your brew.

 

[Devlin]

Thanks Darrellm

I’m based in SW London. Might try find a local brewer, would be good to get face to face tips and eyeball my process.

I tend to stick with the citra and mosaic hops for now and really don’t have IBU target in mind when a brew, as silly as that may sound.

I have attempted to throw more hops in previously, and again on bottling day it smells like almost too good to be real. Yet, it ends the same always - murky, toffee, actually unpleasant.

I do have a 10l pot so could possibly do a 10l mash. And yeah, fermentation temp is a weak point in my setup. In saying that, would a hot fermentation really cause the beer to go off like this?

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Devlin, doe's it taste like butterscotch, do you put the lid on during the boil, I am asking because this is a learning curve for me being new to ag brewing

 

[An Ankoù]

I always put the lid on during the boil, with a bit of wood or my spoon to make a gap for the steam to get out. It boils better that way and it doesn't smell or taste of butterscotch.
Something is contaminating your beer. Does it come into contact with iron of mild steel at any stage?

 

[Devlin]

Never thought of putting the lid on during the boil but might give it a try. I guess butterscotch might be a good way of describing the taste.

If it is contamination, the culprit surely must be during the bottling process as when the beer is in the carboy and up to the point of releasing the bung it just looks and smells right. Nothing to suggest a contaminated batch.

I really should have taken a photo of the first few days after bottling. I can only describe it as a dark cloud growing and looming over the beer, slowly working its way down. Evil.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi An, the only reason I asked was I googled it and it came back with dme or dma I am learning ag and this could help me and others down the line, dms,