Conditioning

[Steeley]

Hi Guys, I have started doing some bottle beers from kits, I have a couple of kegs on the go but I thought I would try bottling a few months ago, the issue that I have is the sediment in the bottle, I have it in the fermentation bucket for 2 weeks, then I bottle it and put 1-1/2 tablets in each bottle, I leave that for 2 weeks in a warm place, then I put it in the cellar for a further 2 weeks and the beer on the whole tastes ok, but it’s this bloody sediment, would the beer be ok if I bought a second bucket with a tap at the bottom, put say about 100g suger in leave for the 2 weeks, then transfer via the tap directly into the bottle, therefore leaving the sediment in the secondary bucket, would my beer be ok and more importantly after two weeks in the cellar would I have an head on my beer, sorry for the long explanation, but any help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[MickDundee]

You will always have sediment in the bottle if you are carbonating in the bottle - it’s mainly the yeast that has been doing the carbonating. Just pour carefully and leave 1-2cm of beer in the bottom of the bottle.

You won’t be able to carbonate in a second FV, you won’t have anything to pressurise the bottles, increase risk of oxidation etc. And you’ll probably still end up with sediment anyway.


If you want a bottle with no sediment you’ll need to go down the Cornelius keg and counter-pressure bottle gun route (I’m assuming when you say “keg” you are referring to pressure barrels).

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

You can reduce sediment to almost nothing by introducing an intermediate stage. It’s almost the same as @MickDundee suggested and is what I do...

If you have pressure barrels, after fermenting put the beer in a pressure barrel and prime with a little sugar (or inject a CO2 bulb) and leave it for 2-4 weeks to clear. You’re not looking to fully carbonate the beer at this point, just to push all the oxygen out of the barrel. You can test how clear the beer is by pouring a little. When ready, transfer to bottles by pouring into the bottle directly from the PB or via a jug. Try to keep any swirling, splashing, etc. to a minimum to avoid oxygenation. Prime the bottles as normal but just a little less sugar (maybe use 75%) because you’ve partially carbonated the beer already.

If you use plastic bottles this last step is easier and more reliable. Fill the bottle almost to the top, prime with the normal amount of sugar, squeeze the bottle as you tighten the cap so a little beer comes out - this will make sure there’s no air in the head-space. The bottles at this point will be slightly crumpled but the extra carbonation will account for this. If the bottles get too hard you can just ease the caps to relieve a little pressure.

Here’s one I bottled a week ago...

..and a close-up looking into the base. No sediment.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Some beers do benefit from bottle conditioning it's just in there style. I counter pressure fill my bottles so near to nil sediment even when a year or two down the line. However that said the beer does deteriorate with time and faster if not kept cool. I am now drinking the archive of beer and it's not as good as when it went into the bottle 6 plus months ago.
Most bottled beer is just for a season unless superstrong, hoppy and dark or you are planning on it funking up in the bottle with some weird stuff.
Time and a decent cooling period with the right amount of priming will help to get a minimal yeast layer that is well packed down, over foamy bottles normally mean too much priming and sometimes contamination.

 

[moto748]

Sediment in beer bottles doesn't bother me, but I'd make a couple of points. First of all, and sorry if this is obvious, but do you pouring from bottle to glass? I always pour from bottle to a litre jug, and from there to glass. It'a just easier, with most beer types you can spot the sediment start to move along the surface of the beer towards the bottle mouth as you tilt it. Even with brown bottles! But I agree clear bottles do have advantages; I always have at least one clear bottle in a batch to check clarity. Usually I leave about half an inch of beer behind. As Mick Dundee already said, in metric!

You will always have sediment in beer bottles (unless, as noted, you go down a pressure system route), but it really isn't a problem. Look upon it as a badge of authenticity! If you have clear bottles and sediment, how much? I wouldn't expect much more than a millimetre or two. Careful pouring, and there's reason why you can't have a glass of clear beer!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Counter pressure filling is great, and the filler itself needn’t be expensive - I picked up a cheap one from Amazon last year for £25 and it works fine (but it’s a bit of a fiddle). You do need a supply of compressed CO2 though; at which point you’re looking at a regulator and then you might as well condition without adding sugar anyhow...

 

[Steeley]

Thanks guys that’s been very informative, just a further question, are the plastic bottles ok, I use the swing top ones, it’s a lot of faffing around sterilising, but I noticed they were a lot cheaper, but once again thank you both for your response, I will give it a go with one of my barrels, cheers lads.

 

[Clint]

Some good advice.
Mine is...don't fret about it..pour slowly. You could use a more sticky yeast like Notty. Or...get a drinking vessel you can't see through.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Some good advice.
Mine is...don't fret about it..pour slowly. You could use a more sticky yeast like Notty. Or...get a drinking vessel you can't see through.

I agree.
also getting it really cold helps the sediment stay In the bottle. If you don’t like your beer really cold just leave it for 10 minutes or so after pouring.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks guys that’s been very informative, just a further question, are the plastic bottles ok, I use the swing top ones, it’s a lot of faffing around sterilising, but I noticed they were a lot cheaper, but once again thank you both for your response, I will give it a go with one of my barrels, cheers lads.

Almost all my beer is served from kegs but I do I use swing-top glass and plastic bottles too. The glass ones I use for long-term storage - I have two-year old cider in these and it’s still fresh and fruity. The plastic ones I use for bottle swaps and competitions because they’re cheap, easy to use, and lightweight to send in the post. The plastic ones should be good for several weeks but I just don’t trust them in the longer term.

 

[Steeley]

You will always have sediment in the bottle if you are carbonating in the bottle - it’s mainly the yeast that has been doing the carbonating. Just pour carefully and leave 1-2cm of beer in the bottom of the bottle.

You won’t be able to carbonate in a second FV, you won’t have anything to pressurise the bottles, increase risk of oxidation etc. And you’ll probably still end up with sediment anyway.


If you want a bottle with no sediment you’ll need to go down the Cornelius keg and counter-pressure bottle gun route (I’m assuming when you say “keg” you are referring to pressure barrels).

Yes Mick I meant a PB, it’s no great thing but I was just trying to do something different, cheers for your help

 

[Steeley]

Almost all my beer is served from kegs but I do I use swing-top glass and plastic bottles too. The glass ones I use for long-term storage - I have two-year old cider in these and it’s still fresh and fruity. The plastic ones I use for bottle swaps and competitions because they’re cheap, easy to use, and lightweight to send in the post. The plastic ones should be good for several weeks but I just don’t trust them in the longer term.

Yes I have always been a bit sceptical of using the plastic ones, I have some Muntons Old Oak ale that I have had down now in swing top bottles and it does taste good, but I don’t think if I left it that long in a plastic bottle it might not taste as good.

 

[Steeley]

Sediment in beer bottles doesn't bother me, but I'd make a couple of points. First of all, and sorry if this is obvious, but do you pouring from bottle to glass? I always pour from bottle to a litre jug, and from there to glass. It'a just easier, with most beer types you can spot the sediment start to move along the surface of the beer towards the bottle mouth as you tilt it. Even with brown bottles! But I agree clear bottles do have advantages; I always have at least one clear bottle in a batch to check clarity. Usually I leave about half an inch of beer behind. As Mick Dundee already said, in metric!

You will always have sediment in beer bottles (unless, as noted, you go down a pressure system route), but it really isn't a problem. Look upon it as a badge of authenticity! If you have clear bottles and sediment, how much? I wouldn't expect much more than a millimetre or two. Careful pouring, and there's reason why you can't have a glass of clear beer!

I must admit Moro 748 I do pour straight from the bottle and I can see the start of the sediment starting to flow then I stop, leaves about half inch in the bottle, I must admit tho I cocked up with some larger recently, I put the same amount of suger( one and half conditioning tablet) that I put in my normal beer, came out flat as a pancake, but I will keep preserving, but thanks for your help

 

[Steeley]

Counter pressure filling is great, and the filler itself needn’t be expensive - I picked up a cheap one from Amazon last year for £25 and it works fine (but it’s a bit of a fiddle). You do need a supply of compressed CO2 though; at which point you’re looking at a regulator and then you might as well condition without adding sugar anyhow...

Thanks, now that seems a bit complicated, but try anything once

 

[Steeley]

Some good advice.
Mine is...don't fret about it..pour slowly. You could use a more sticky yeast like Notty. Or...get a drinking vessel you can't see through.

I will try , but if all else fails, like you say pour slowly, sit down and enjoy

 

[Steeley]

Some beers do benefit from bottle conditioning it's just in there style. I counter pressure fill my bottles so near to nil sediment even when a year or two down the line. However that said the beer does deteriorate with time and faster if not kept cool. I am now drinking the archive of beer and it's not as good as when it went into the bottle 6 plus months ago.
Most bottled beer is just for a season unless superstrong, hoppy and dark or you are planning on it funking up in the bottle with some weird stuff.
Time and a decent cooling period with the right amount of priming will help to get a minimal yeast layer that is well packed down, over foamy bottles normally mean too much priming and sometimes contamination.

I think at the most my bottled beers are at the most 3 months old before their finished and down in the cellar is fairly cold and doing the 2-2-2 brewing time seems to work ok.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

You can reduce sediment to almost nothing by introducing an intermediate stage. It’s almost the same as @MickDundee suggested and is what I do...

If you have pressure barrels, after fermenting put the beer in a pressure barrel and prime with a little sugar (or inject a CO2 bulb) and leave it for 2-4 weeks to clear. You’re not looking to fully carbonate the beer at this point, just to push all the oxygen out of the barrel. You can test how clear the beer is by pouring a little. When ready, transfer to bottles by pouring into the bottle directly from the PB or via a jug. Try to keep any swirling, splashing, etc. to a minimum to avoid oxygenation. Prime the bottles as normal but just a little less sugar (maybe use 75%) because you’ve partially carbonated the beer already.

If you use plastic bottles this last step is easier and more reliable. Fill the bottle almost to the top, prime with the normal amount of sugar, squeeze the bottle as you tighten the cap so a little beer comes out - this will make sure there’s no air in the head-space. The bottles at this point will be slightly crumpled but the extra carbonation will account for this. If the bottles get too hard you can just ease the caps to relieve a little pressure.

Here’s one I bottled a week ago...
View attachment 47402
..and a close-up looking into the base. No sediment.
View attachment 47403

Ooooohhhhh

 

[JeffDragon7]

Almost all my beer is served from kegs but I do I use swing-top glass and plastic bottles too. The glass ones I use for long-term storage - I have two-year old cider in these and it’s still fresh and fruity. The plastic ones I use for bottle swaps and competitions because they’re cheap, easy to use, and lightweight to send in the post. The plastic ones should be good for several weeks but I just don’t trust them in the longer term.

I’d love to move on to kegs but keeping them cool in summer would be a problem, and funds dont run to kegerators etc

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’d love to move on to kegs but keeping them cool in summer would be a problem, and funds dont run to kegerators etc

You could just put your keg in a fridge and open the fridge to pour a beer using a party tap?

 

[JeffDragon7]

You could just put your keg in a fridge and open the fridge to pour a beer using a party tap?

True I guess