Conditioning and temp control

[Fil]

I am not 100% sure here, but I think you guys guys are getting it wrong here, sorry to split hairs but carbonating is the process of priming sugar or whatever your priming charge is creating the CO2 in your beer and conditioning is what goes on after that, waiting for it to mature/mellow out ....often at lower temps...that was the point I was trying to make, if we use the correct terminology we avoid confusing each other.

now your describing maturing, regardless the labels you choose to apply to your process, sounds like you doing the right things..

condition is a term used to describe the life or fizz in a brew, and conditioning is the process of adding that life be it naturally or artificially introduced.

:drunk::whistle:

 

[Clint]

Ok....why then does the gh book say to condition at 12°c for 6 weeks or other temps for as many as 14 weeks? I think this refers to the time it takes for the beer to mature and developed it's characteristics.

 

[Fil]

typo perhaps, not as if brew books are without em
tbh i dont know.. that sure does sound like what i would understand as maturing.

Perhaps conditioning originated as a term for the whole mysterious process of post fermentation 'magic' and as our understanding of the process grew some weighted it to the initial aspect while others the latter aspect?? but thats just guesswork, and im way too lazy to browse up on the subject atm..


As long as when we are talking about the processes we all understand what we mean by the terms all is well, If you feel strongly on the matter use the terminoligy you prefer, however it may be prudent to get into the habit of clarifying what you mean as it could be confusing..
perhaps a poll post to test the general concensus and confirm/disprove my assertions??

 

[Clint]

..it's amazing! No one has the answer. ..

 

[Sadfield]

Surely "conditioning" is the dual process of carbonation and maturation. Where maturation, is the beer maturing and no longer being 'young' and having flavour or aromas that are byproducts of fermentation. As a result of carbonation and maturation the beer reaches the correct condition for consumption. Ageing is a stage beyond that where oxidation over time changes the character of the beer.

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

 

[foxy]

The lower the temperature the longer the yeast takes to condition the beer, that is why ideal temperature is the fermenting temperature, that is where yeast is in its happy place.So for instance if the recommended fermentation temperature is say 20 degrees C and then it is bottled and kept at 12 degrees C the yeast will be very sluggish and take longer to finish carbonating the bottle a cask is always quicker because there is less sugar added to a cask by volume.There are downsides to finishing a beer at a lower temperature and even more at finishing a beer at a higher temperature, I cringe when I read, 'finished bottling my beer and put them somewhere warm to condition'.

 

[Fil]

well i shall continue to refer to the conditioning and maturing as 2 distinct phases in a brew, and qualify if i think there is any ambiguity in the thread im contributing to.. the clincher for me is the co2 content being referred to as the beers condition.

its not a case on being right or wrong, simply a matter of ensuring we are all on the same page in a discussion.

 

[pms67]

The lower the temperature the longer the yeast takes to condition the beer, that is why ideal temperature is the fermenting temperature, that is where yeast is in its happy place.So for instance if the recommended fermentation temperature is say 20 degrees C and then it is bottled and kept at 12 degrees C the yeast will be very sluggish and take longer to finish carbonating the bottle a cask is always quicker because there is less sugar added to a cask by volume.There are downsides to finishing a beer at a lower temperature and even more at finishing a beer at a higher temperature, I cringe when I read, 'finished bottling my beer and put them somewhere warm to condition'.

Out of interest, why?

 

[foxy]

If the why is referring to putting bottles somewhere warm, I imagine someone sticking them into a warm shed or garage to speed up the conditioning process, room temperature is classed as 20 degrees which is fine high twenties and thirty degree heat will shorten the life of the beer as well as the possibility of making gushers.

 

[DoctorMick]

If the why is referring to putting bottles somewhere warm, I imagine someone sticking them into a warm shed or garage to speed up the conditioning process, room temperature is classed as 20 degrees which is fine high twenties and thirty degree heat will shorten the life of the beer as well as the possibility of making gushers.

I always say "somewhere warm" when what I actually mean is room temperature, I'm pretty sure a lot of others mean the same when they say it.

 

[foxbat]

It's easy really...

1. Store at or near 20C for 1 week after bottling to allow secondary fermentation aka. carbonation to take place.
2. Store for several more weeks at or near the pub cellar temperature of 12C to mature or condition. The number of weeks increases the bigger the beer.

(these numbers are for ales, lagers are different)

 

[pms67]

If the why is referring to putting bottles somewhere warm, I imagine someone sticking them into a warm shed or garage to speed up the conditioning process, room temperature is classed as 20 degrees which is fine high twenties and thirty degree heat will shorten the life of the beer as well as the possibility of making gushers.

Ok I get your point but if the beer is brewed correctly gushers shouldn't occur,Ive brewed beer and had no room for proper storage and have stuck 50-60 bottles in the shed and haven't had a problem, I'm sure (others will correct me if this is wrong) that even if the temp hits 30, it takes time for the bottles to get to that temp? I think "cringe" is a bit harsh as most people are doing this on a small scale and don't have a big set up, I agree it's not ideal but hey ho, you can only do what you can do.
Just my take on it 👍

 

[Clint]

Regarding shoving them in the shed ...the ones off the floor have condensation on them...and are quite cool.

 

[foxy]

Ok I get your point but if the beer is brewed correctly gushers shouldn't occur,Ive brewed beer and had no room for proper storage and have stuck 50-60 bottles in the shed and haven't had a problem, I'm sure (others will correct me if this is wrong) that even if the temp hits 30, it takes time for the bottles to get to that temp? I think "cringe" is a bit harsh as most people are doing this on a small scale and don't have a big set up, I agree it's not ideal but hey ho, you can only do what you can do.
Just my take on it 👍

I would imagine a lot of people have put them in higher temperatures than is needed without having gushers that is why I used the word "possible" in that post, the reason I cringe is, if a new brewer is reading, 'putting them somewhere warm' what would be his take on that? Saying 'room temperature' will at least let him know around 20 degrees C mark is where he should be storing them.