Comprehensive All Grain Setup

[JDT]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post (besides my one in the new member section). I'll actually copy a bit of that post for some background. I've done a lot of kits over the years and helped out at a few brew days at some local breweries on my shift days off from work for 'work experience', to see the brewing process and equipment in small craft / microbreweries first hand. I've wanted to make the jump to all-grain for a while and really try to replicate the brewing process and level of precision and control as close to industry levels as possible but on a home scale. I can't emphasise enough however, that I am still basically an absolute beginner in all this! I just want to start out with a comprehensive set up that will limit me as little as possible from the off because I know this is something I want to keep up, so I am not worried about a large initial investment.

I'm a fermentation scientist in the biotechnology industry so I'm drawn like a magpie to the 'shiny' factor of stainless steel - so I know I want a stainless steel set up. When doing initial research I was immediately drawn to this package because (whilst stainless is always going to be a bit pricey) I thought it represented good value for money:

https://www.brewuk.co.uk/ss-brewtech-5-gal-starter.html
I thought that was a pretty comprehensive package for the brew, and quite upgradeable also, as there seemed to be a myriad of extra fittings for extra heating and cooling options in the future. Perhaps once I get into the swing of it and get into a regular schedule or routine I'd add another fermenter or two and possibly a brite tank such as this one for in-vessel carbonation and closed transfer:

https://www.brewuk.co.uk/ss-brite-tank.html
Am I missing anything from this setup? I don't think I am but just want to check with experienced home brewers that I've not made a glaring oversight. Now, whilst I have a fairly decent understanding of the brewing process, the part where I feel I could really fall down (due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge) is the transfer to the serving vessels, storage, conditioning etc. I really want to not botch this aspect up. I know I mainly want to make carbonated keg beers, so the natural choice seems to be corny kegs, so my main questions relating to this were:

What size CO2 bottles do people use and does anyone have any links to some well-priced food-grade CO2 bottle suppliers? (side question - is it possible / does anyone ever make homebrew nitro beers in corny kegs?)

How do people cool them and keep them cool, short of coughing up the cash for a kegerator (which I'd probably like to do in the future around the same time I upgraded to an extra fermenter and brite tank because then it would be worthwhile).

Right, I know that was one long post but thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing your collective wisdom!

 

[JonBrew]

Wow, where to begin. Seeing as nobody else has replied I might as well have stab. Welcome to the forum btw!

Am I missing anything from this setup? I don't think I am but just want to check with experienced home brewers that I've not made a glaring oversight.

To answer your question, other than a heat source for your kettle, probably not. That's assuming you've considered how you're going to control the temperature of your FV. I can see the FV in that package comes with the FTSS gear but you'll need to connect that to an ice water box or a glycol system to run it.

However, my general observation is that you don't need the kit you've linked to make professional quality beer at home or indeed to have the same level of control as a pro brewery. You also don't need shiny but you seem determined and it's not my money. Having said that, if it were me, I wouldnt be bothering with a three vessel set-up. At the very least you dont need two very high end mash tuns like that, one of which appears to be serving the function of a HLT.

One of the great perks of being a homebrewer is that we dont need to be bound by commercial practices because we work on a much smaller scale. You may wish to look into no sparge brewing which can produce a higher quality wort at the cost of a fairly small efficiency hit - again something that home brewer probably should be worrying about. If it were me i'd be looking at a kettle and mash tun set up and going no sparge with full volume mash. That will save you a chunk of cash. This leads me to another point. You might want to check out Brew Builder for your shiny needs - their high end stuff is basically SS Brewtech but unbranded so quite a lot cheaper.

Another linked consideration, have you considered a single vessel system? Appreciate these options come with their own flaws such as heating element being difficult/impossible to replace (in some) but they're worthy of consideration as they provide a great level of control/repeatability, only a single vessel to work with/clean, and can turn out an equally high quality wort. Just saying.

What size CO2 bottles do people use and does anyone have any links to some well-priced food-grade CO2 bottle suppliers?

Depends were you live. I'm in Perth so only know of suppliers near me but there are many throughout the country. Best bet is to google or post this as a separate question within the forum stating where you are based.

(side question - is it possible / does anyone ever make homebrew nitro beers in corny kegs?)

Yes. As with CO2 you can purchase Nitro tanks and I think most do a blend of 70/30 CO2/Nitro. Again, google can provide further explanation/answers here and/or post as a separate question on HBF.

How do people cool them and keep them cool, short of coughing up the cash for a kegerator (which I'd probably like to do in the future around the same time I upgraded to an extra fermenter and brite tank because then it would be worthwhile).

Build a kegerator/keezer. Fairly easy to do with basic DIY tools/skills. There's lots of online guides. You can also buy them but converting a second hand fridge/chest freezer will save you a chunk of cash. Definitely do one or the other though - no point in spending mega bucks on a high end AG system only to store your kegged beer warm. Same applies to controlling fermentation temp.

Also, to your point about the brite tank, I get that you like the shiny but this is one area were i'd say you should really consider the plastic options such as Fermentasaurus or Brewzilla. It's basically a plastic unitank - ferment, carbonate, transfer all under CO2 pressure if you wish - and will save you literally hunderds.

All the best.

 

[Ghillie]

Seems like the home brewing world is generally stepping away from gas and going electric. Not only is it more efficient, but it's also less dangerous (fumes, etc).

If I were investing that money into brewing equipment, it definitely wouldn't be gas. But that's just me...

 

[Session]

Hi JDT - welcome!
It would be really helpful to know how much money you wanted to spend for everything, as you could then get a range of options from a range of different brewers at the same price, and have a think about the pros and cons of each.

If I was buying a new set up, I would want to pay the smallest amount possible for a system that didn’t constrain my brewing, and gave the most flexibility possible with the least amount of work.

As it happens I am doing just that at the moment. Having brewed twenty AG beers using BIAB on my stove and a further 50-odd brews on the Grainfather, a relocation from NZ back to Blighty has made me need to look for a new system.

I went for an all in one system - personally I would have loved to get the BrewTools B40pro or B80pro, as these look fantastic but were just too much of an outlay, so I went with a BrewZilla 35 for 20% of the price and probably a good 60-80% of the functionality. I’m sure I’ll need to upgrade at some point, but I’m happy that currently I’ll be the weak link in the chain for now, as opposed to being held back by my system.

The main weak point of the BrewZila is the chiller, but I’m no-chilling to help reduce time during my brew day, and so this mitigates this problem.

In terms of fermenting vessel, I decided to ferment in cornys under pressure and with spunding for carbonation. This was I save CO2, and I can always switch up to using the kegs as kegs again if I want to buy something else in the future, but this way I have some flexibility.

To serve I will be closed transferring into 10L growler kegs with attached taps on a flow-control faucet. This was so I don’t have beer line to clean, won’t end up with huge glasses of foam and can store the 10L kegs in my domestic fridge, without having to buy/build a kegerator.

Anyway - that’s what I’m doing, happy to answer any questions if you have any.

The total cost of everything in my system including kegs, regulator, etc etc etc is £788

 

[JDT]

Hi again all and thanks for the detailed responses! I really do appreciate you taking the time to give me all this advice to help my decision. Originally I had my heart set on a 3/4V system because, as we know, it would be closest to mirroring the process in industry. However, now, after considering that set-up still required gas / burner heating and would probably be a lot more energy intensive and require me to route extra services and do infrastructure work in my garage, I'm feeling far more inclined towards an all-in-one system, specifically the BrewTools B40. I can afford it at the moment and would rather just get one from the outset rather than upgrading later since I'm lucky enough to be able to.

Regarding my budget, I have about £2k to throw at this initially, which I'd like to spend primarily on the B40 and building myself a decent and suitable keezer / kegerator because I don't want the quality of beer to be compromised due to poor conditioning after all the rest of the work is done! I'd also need kegs obviously and I'm certainly going to take as look at the 10L growler kegs you mentioned, Session. The part I'm most worried about is transfer, carbing and proper storage because that's simply something I've never done before with just doing sugar priming in bottles on my extract brews of the past. I anticipate teething problems and nerves (and the 'oh ****, how come I don't have this small fitting / line that I need right now?!' moments) on these steps for the first few batches but now the more I'm talking on this forum and learning the more I'm itching just to get started and get my first few all-grain batches under my belt!

I'm certainly thinking long and hard about this before I dive in because I want to get the right kit for the job first time round and don't want to spend a total of 100's here and there after-the-fact on little things I should have initially considered.

Thanks again all for the warm welcome.

 

[keat64]

Here's my personal take on it. Please don't take offence
I'm a Yorkshireman, the first words we teach our children is 'Ow Much'

You really need to be serious to consider spending that sort of money.

Homemade been costs about 50p per pint, pub beer about £2.50 - £3.00 in my village.
A saving of around £2.00 per pint.

The kit you posted would mean that you'd have to drink around 750 pints of beer just to break even.
So either you're in this for the long haul, or you have a drinking problem.

You could quite easily build a 5-gallon microbrewery for a tenth of the price. (maybe not in shiny stuff though)

 

[Clint]

I got two 35 litre pots and a picnic mash tun. My job is powerful enough,just,to get it up to boil. I bottle and have a couple of PB's. My beer is very nice
Things I'll change....
Possibly get an all in one system.
Build a kegerator as bottling is a pita.
2k will get you a nice pile of stuff but if you don't master it you will make **** beer...if you get fed up you may get half your money back if you're lucky.
For my money I'd get...
A Robobrew or a Grain father.
Build a kegerator.

 

[Session]

Hi again all and thanks for the detailed responses! I really do appreciate you taking the time to give me all this advice to help my decision. Originally I had my heart set on a 3/4V system because, as we know, it would be closest to mirroring the process in industry. However, now, after considering that set-up still required gas / burner heating and would probably be a lot more energy intensive and require me to route extra services and do infrastructure work in my garage, I'm feeling far more inclined towards an all-in-one system, specifically the BrewTools B40. I can afford it at the moment and would rather just get one from the outset rather than upgrading later since I'm lucky enough to be able to.

Regarding my budget, I have about £2k to throw at this initially, which I'd like to spend primarily on the B40 and building myself a decent and suitable keezer / kegerator because I don't want the quality of beer to be compromised due to poor conditioning after all the rest of the work is done! I'd also need kegs obviously and I'm certainly going to take as look at the 10L growler kegs you mentioned, Session. The part I'm most worried about is transfer, carbing and proper storage because that's simply something I've never done before with just doing sugar priming in bottles on my extract brews of the past. I anticipate teething problems and nerves (and the 'oh s**t, how come I don't have this small fitting / line that I need right now?!' moments) on these steps for the first few batches but now the more I'm talking on this forum and learning the more I'm itching just to get started and get my first few all-grain batches under my belt!

I'm certainly thinking long and hard about this before I dive in because I want to get the right kit for the job first time round and don't want to spend a total of 100's here and there after-the-fact on little things I should have initially considered.

Thanks again all for the warm welcome.

The B40 does look amazing - a word of caution though, you really need to get the accessory pack as well, which costs another £500 or so. The B40 doesn’t come with a chiller as standard, nor lots of other bits which are really necessary to use it at it’s full potential. You’ll want to budget £2k just for the B40 I would suggest. As others have mentioned, you might be better off getting a Robobrew or something similar & spending the lions share of your budget on the most important part of brewing - fermentation control! You’ll be only too familiar with this so won’t try and teach you to suck eggs. If you find you like the hobby and decide you really need the features that the B40 offers in future, you’ll be able to sell the robo for a reasonable amount so don’t expect you’d lose too much from this approach. If it was me, I’d put more money into fermentation control and dispensing (kegerators are expensive!) than making wort, but that’s just me.
Let me know what you end up with - I’m excited to hear what you go for!

 

[Session]

Just did some virtual window shopping - here’s what I would get if starting out and with a £2k budget:

Brewzilla, jacket, hop spider, chiller = £320 (brewkegtap)
Kegmenter with pressure lid £185 + £60 = £245 (thehomebrewery.co.uk)
Beer to beer transfer line = £10
3x corny kegs = £153 (homebrewcompany)
CO2 = £100
Kegerator inc lines, regulator, disconnects = £580 (brewuk)
Fermentation fridge = £200
Inkbird ITC-308 = £30
Heat pad/brew belt = £25
Fan for fermentation fridge = £10
Stir plate = £40
Erlenmeyer flask 5L = £50
pH meter (Hanna HI-98108) = £60
————————————————
£1823

This doesn’t include delivery.

The same set up with the B40 instead of the BrewZilla would cost £3523...
I would absolutely go for the B40 if you can, but wanted to point out there’s a lot more you need to budget for over and above something to make wort.

 

[JDT]

Thanks again for the further replies folks! And sorry it's taken me ages to get back, had a very busy week. After all the extra advice I think I'll be going down the Robobrew Brewzilla route as a couple of you suggested. In fact, because you were so kind to go out of your way to make a full product and price list (including all the 'ancillaries' and bits and bobs which I'd need - besides the main vessels - that I'd likely forget about!) I think I'll just go for the exact kit list you proposed, Session. I really, really appreciate that.

Just goes to show how much it helps asking a community when you're setting out on a new path for a hobby! If I look back I've gone from wanting what was effectively a nano-scale replica of an industrial brewery, then to a somewhat pricier all in one system, then having a reality check and going with a much cheaper version because that's all I'd really need, especially just starting out. So thanks again!

Session, couple of extra questions if I can take yet more of your time you've so kindly used on me:

The fermentation fridge for £200 - was that your approximate budget for a self-build or do you have a link to a specific product you meant?

All the products below that, is there a single website where I could get them all in one go? Or did you mean all from brewuk as that was the last site you had in brackets on the list?

 

[Clint]

Most people buy a second hand fridge or inherit one! It may be a bit more difficult currently for this so you may want to wait not unless you buy a new one...but you may have to modify it so would void any warranty. This can be possible though...I just needed to push my heater cable through the drain hole at the back,the door closes on the temp probe ok so no holes req. You will probably have to make a small shelf too to put the fv on as the compressor is in the way.If you can cadge a fridge the cost should be well under £100....£30 for Inkbird,under £20 for a heater..shelf free if you can find any bits of wood.

 

[Keruso]

Thanks again for the further replies folks! And sorry it's taken me ages to get back, had a very busy week. After all the extra advice I think I'll be going down the Robobrew Brewzilla route as a couple of you suggested. In fact, because you were so kind to go out of your way to make a full product and price list (including all the 'ancillaries' and bits and bobs which I'd need - besides the main vessels - that I'd likely forget about!) I think I'll just go for the exact kit list you proposed, Session. I really, really appreciate that.

Just goes to show how much it helps asking a community when you're setting out on a new path for a hobby! If I look back I've gone from wanting what was effectively a nano-scale replica of an industrial brewery, then to a somewhat pricier all in one system, then having a reality check and going with a much cheaper version because that's all I'd really need, especially just starting out. So thanks again!

Session, couple of extra questions if I can take yet more of your time you've so kindly used on me:

The fermentation fridge for £200 - was that your approximate budget for a self-build or do you have a link to a specific product you meant?

All the products below that, is there a single website where I could get them all in one go? Or did you mean all from brewuk as that was the last site you had in brackets on the list?

On the fridge, I bought a 2nd hand chest Freezer £40, the Mangrove Jacks temperature controller £35 and heating belt £10 for fermentation. I got a 2nd chest freezer for £40 to act as a Kegerator, needs a second belt and heat controller. Both are in my conservatory.

I use BOC suregas CO2 which is half the price of your budget. ​

So there's potential to make extra savings.

 

[Session]

Thanks again for the further replies folks! And sorry it's taken me ages to get back, had a very busy week. After all the extra advice I think I'll be going down the Robobrew Brewzilla route as a couple of you suggested. In fact, because you were so kind to go out of your way to make a full product and price list (including all the 'ancillaries' and bits and bobs which I'd need - besides the main vessels - that I'd likely forget about!) I think I'll just go for the exact kit list you proposed, Session. I really, really appreciate that.

Just goes to show how much it helps asking a community when you're setting out on a new path for a hobby! If I look back I've gone from wanting what was effectively a nano-scale replica of an industrial brewery, then to a somewhat pricier all in one system, then having a reality check and going with a much cheaper version because that's all I'd really need, especially just starting out. So thanks again!

Session, couple of extra questions if I can take yet more of your time you've so kindly used on me:

The fermentation fridge for £200 - was that your approximate budget for a self-build or do you have a link to a specific product you meant?

All the products below that, is there a single website where I could get them all in one go? Or did you mean all from brewuk as that was the last site you had in brackets on the list?

Hey JDT - glad to be able to help!

I’m going through the exact same process myself at the minute so it’s nice to be able to share the info and help someone else out.

To be honest I just had a look at some cheap undercounter fridges and £200 seemed the cheapest ones which looked to be the right size. Having said that when I made my first fermentation fridge I bought it second hand in NZ for $1, so it absolutely doesn’t need to cost £200. Just make sure it’s big enough to fit your Kegmenter in!

Regarding the inkbird, heat belt and fan, there wasn’t a specific site I found that carried all of them. Any small fan will do - maybe try somewhere like Argos? It’s only used so you don’t get hot spots in your fridge. I had mine on a two-way plug adapter with the heat pad so it runs whenever the heat belt/mat is on and circulates the air.

Hanna instruments website is the best place to buy the pH meter from that I have found:
https://www.hannainstruments.co.uk/hi-98108-phep-ph-tester-deg-c.html
I built my stir plate, but I’d check eBay for basic ones, I’ve seen them for about £30.
Something like this:
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnetic-S...b7daff2e6d42&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
Let me know if you get stuck or need a hand with anything. If you reply to my post it will send me an email so I’ll know to check the forum.

 

[JDT]

Thanks again! I'll hopefully be doing a lot of ordering this week based on your advice!

Session - the extra info is much appreciated once again!