Coffee wine?

[brisboy]

Hello all,
I feel like I read someone say something about coffee wine but I can't seem to find any information or recipes. Has anyone tried this? Is it a figment of my imagination? Am I finally losing it?

Edit: I feel like it might have been @oldbloke forgive me if i'm wrong.

 

[Moley]

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=46699

I've got 15 litres of this on the go at the moment and it seems to be taking forever. I went to rack it about 2 months ago and the hydrometer still said 1.050

Just a few small bubbles around the neck of the jar, but I haven't taken another SG reading yet.

 

[brisboy]

Champion, thanks.

 

[DrD]

Any reason coffee isn't added at the end?

Do you really want to ferment with the coffee? Caffeine is a purine analogue and a "buggerer upperer" (technical term) of yeast cell wall architecture and various metabolic pathways, reckon you'd be better off leaving it out until after primary fermentation unless there is a logical reason not to.

In a tsp of instant coffee there is about 100 mg caffeine.

3 tsp per tbsp = 300 mg per tbsp = 1200 mg per gallon (per 3 L during initial ferment with headspace).

Sooo... 400 mg/L. MW caffeine is 194 g/mol so 0.4/194 = 0.0021 M = 2.1 mM

IC50 of caffeine on S. cerevisiae (the concentration required to inhibit the growth of 50% of yeast cells (short term dosing)) is about 8 mM, but 2 mM long term is likely to have an effect, so not surprised that alcohol poisoning plus, nutrient depletion plus caffeine dosing seems to kill it off quick.

 

[Robbo]

Lordy DrD :shock: :shock:

I bet youv'e been on University Challenge

 

[oldbloke]

Well, I suppose you /could/ ferment a pure sugar solution and then dump some coffee in it, but everybody reckons fermenting sugar solutions gives nasty flavours.
Never had any trouble with the yeast working with the coffee in at the start, and it looks wild as it ferments!

 

[Moley]

Well thanks DrD, I got 'A' levels including biology, chemistry and maths, but all that stuff about mls and mols went right over this mole's head. Then I worked out it has been 38 years since I got those 'A' levels :shock:

I triple-checked the maths but couldn't get the answer any lower

Caffeine is a "buggerer upperer" (technical term) of yeast cell wall architecture and various metabolic pathways.

But I think most of us probably understood that bit :thumb:

Checked mine again tonight, still 1.016 and that's since last November. I think this will be one for blending with something very dry, or might just get dumped.

Definitely not one to repeat.

 

[oldbloke]

Maybe use decaf?

Mine came out much as I wanted, except not quite as strong as I'd have liked. I wanted it to end a bit sweet, but 1016 is rather high!

 

[DrD]

Could be that you used a more tolerant strain oldbloke. It isn't something I've tried, but if anyone keeps having problems and is determined to make coffee wine then Decaf or adding at the end could solve it.

Piqued my interest and I'm kinda tempted to run parallel brews now though, what did the end product taste like?

 

[oldbloke]

I was trying for a half-strength Tia Maria and it wasn't awfully far away, though rather thinner - and as said it only made it to 1/3 strength, about standard wine strength.
I used the Gervin high-tolerance yeast, I think it's GV5? (or GV9...)
Also I wouldn't recommend using decent coffee as it does seem to fail for many people and that would be a terrible waste - I used the cheapest instant in the supermarket.

 

[brisboy]

Great discussion, thanks everyone! Looks like if I try this I'll go with decaf for the fermentation period and then add some proper coffee towards the end. Nice to be able to learn from more educated minds. :smile:

 

[oldbloke]

And some vanilla - at the end, it'll get lost during the ferment.

 

[DrD]

Fun fact, and to add to my previous post, as I don't want to give the impression that caffeine is highly toxic, the 400 mg/l caffeine concentration in the brew is the equivalent body water caffeine concentration a 100 kg human would have if they ate about 240 teaspoons of instant coffee.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Did you hear about the girl who died as a result of drinking 3 bottles of caffeine enriched fizzy drinks? Caffeine was used as a substitute for cocaine in Coca Cola. My sister got hooked on coffee at work and had to go into rehab to cure splitting headaches.
If you want to mix caffeine with wine, you can always do the traditional coffee at the end of a meal to help you to stop falling asleep in polite company. Otherwise, why not shove a packet of rolling tobacco in with your instant coffee and get a triple fix. Come to think of it, that's not such a bad idea. Throw in some your 5 a day fruit juice dose and some minced beef for protein and amino acids, some salt and a bit of aspirin and never eat another solid meal!

 

[brisboy]

I'm sold! Great plan! Everything in moderation hey?

 

[DrD]

Did you hear about the girl who died as a result of drinking 3 bottles of caffeine enriched fizzy drinks? !

That's called natural selection. Those that die tend to have pre-existing heart conditions, a stupid amount of energy drink and a boat load of cocaine.

 

[brisboy]

Alright, put on a 2 and a bit litre batch with decaf. Also added some golden syrup (treacle in the UK?), and probably less than an eighth of a teaspoon each of cinnamon, ginger and cardamon trying to get some kerelan coffee notes in there (it probably won't be enough to even taste but then I'll be bolder next time). Be interesting to see how it goes. Thanks everyone. :smile:

 

[brisboy]

Crazy Krausen after 24 hours.

 

[The Goatreich]

I never had much luck with my coffee wine and it went down the sink after never fermenting. I used either GV4 or GV5, I can't quite remember.

I'll likely have another go one day though.

 

[oldbloke]

I started a gallon on Friday, off like a rocket - gave it 2 tsp nutrient though. GV4.
Subbed a tin of golden syrup for some of the sugar, and another 2 lots of sugar to go in at weekly intervals.
Will (again) add some vanilla once the main ferment is done, might do a bit of spice like the poster above as well, but I reckon all that is best at the end - preferably after stabilising - while you're just waiting for it to clear.