CO2 SAFETY.

[Rwilts]

Ok,

the saga continues...

i have just had these delivered, but as i wasn't here the delivery driver informed SWMBO that they were not safe to have in the house due to possibility of CO2 poisoning. This has understandably caused her concern.

They are going into the garage, that is attached to the house but has plenty of roof hight and ventilation.

Can anyone offer any reassurance?

 

[tazuk]

oops i got 2 next to my back door lol lol

 

[Mark1964]

We have had 1 for 2 years no problems so far just make sure they have a service on valves when needed

 

[Rwilts]

Thanks guys,,, going to be a tough sell tho

 

[abeyptfc]

ive got one sitting in my bedroom and its been there for months, if you see the state of my room co2 is the last of my worries!

 

[calumscott]

1. CO2 is non-toxic (which is a bloody good job considering how much is in beer...) so there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.
2. 0.04% of every breath you take is C02 so if it was toxic we'd all be in trouble.
3. The delivery driver is clearly a bloody muppet who heard "carbon" and "oxide" and instead of healthy happy carbon dioxide is telling you about the far less happy and healthy carbon monoxide.

That should do it. :thumb:

You're welcome... mines a pint... :

 

[DaveMack]

The only thing you should worry about is if they fall over and knock the tap off , make sure there chained and fastened to a wall

 

[Rwilts]

Cheers all.

Calumscott next tim3 your around call in for your pint :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

If the "wilts" is for Wiltshire I might hold you to that!!! And offer a reverse pint too of course...

 

[evanvine]

DON'T underestimate CO2, it is virtually an instant killer!!!
If your bottle leaks, and you get into the CO2 layer, you are DEAD!!!!

 

[calumscott]

But the good thing is that it's dense and you are very rarely immobile at ground level, accidents aside of course.

Do make sure that cylinders and regs are serviced and make sure they are kept upright and STAY upright and they're fine.

 

[Moley]

1. CO2 is non-toxic (which is a bloody good job considering how much is in beer...) so there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.
2. 0.04% of every breath you take is C02 so if it was toxic we'd all be in trouble.
3. The delivery driver is clearly a bloody muppet who heard "carbon" and "oxide" and instead of healthy happy carbon dioxide is telling you about the far less happy and healthy carbon monoxide.

********.

Any high pressure cylinder should be treated with the utmost respect, don't bang them together or allow them to fall over.

The air we breathe in is about 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, just under 1% Argon, 0.04% Carbon Dioxide and a few other trace gases. Our red blood cells grab onto the Oxygen and carry it around the body to where it is needed, maybe give it to a piece of muscle, take away the waste Carbon Dioxide and dump it back into the lungs. The air we breathe out is around 78% Nitrogen, 16% Oxygen, 5% Carbon Dioxide, 1% Argon and the other bits.

When the gas in your lungs hits 4-5% CO2 you HAVE to exhale and take another breath because if that Carbon Dioxide isn't exchanged for more Oxygen you will rapidly lose consciousness and then die.

If you've got a leaking CO2 cylinder or damaged gas lines in an enclosed space or somewhere with poor low level ventilation, such as down a cellar, and localised Carbon Dioxide levels get elevated, then you may have a few seconds of coughing and gasping for breath to realise that you're in big trouble and get up the steps and out of there.


If you've got a leaking Nitrogen cylinder you would just die, quite quickly and very happily.

 

[Rwilts]

Moley I do appreciate your input...but I won't show the wife your post if you don't mind

 

[Mark1964]

I agree its very dangerous and can kill very quickly

 

[Moley]

Moley I do appreciate your input...but I won't show the wife your post if you don't mind

Risks are minimal if you treat the bottles with respect and are using above ground level, but as evanvine said, don't underestimate CO2.

Mine is down a cellar with no low level ventilation. I turn the taps off when I've set my keg pressures.

 

[calumscott]

1. CO2 is non-toxic (which is a bloody good job considering how much is in beer...) so there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.
2. 0.04% of every breath you take is C02 so if it was toxic we'd all be in trouble.
3. The delivery driver is clearly a bloody muppet who heard "carbon" and "oxide" and instead of healthy happy carbon dioxide is telling you about the far less happy and healthy carbon monoxide.

********.

'scuse me?

1. It's NOT poisonous. Yes it can kill you, NO it's NOT poisonous, NO there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.
2. It's still not toxic. Yes it can kill you, NO it's still not toxic.
3. I'll be prepared to bet my shirt on that.

Any high pressure cylinder should be treated with the utmost respect, don't bang them together or allow them to fall over.

Quite correct, shrapnel is a bitch.

The air we breathe in is about 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, just under 1% Argon, 0.04% Carbon Dioxide and a few other trace gases. Our red blood cells grab onto the Oxygen and carry it around the body to where it is needed, maybe give it to a piece of muscle, take away the waste Carbon Dioxide and dump it back into the lungs. The air we breathe out is around 78% Nitrogen, 16% Oxygen, 5% Carbon Dioxide, 1% Argon and the other bits.

When the gas in your lungs hits 4-5% CO2 you HAVE to exhale and take another breath because if that Carbon Dioxide isn't exchanged for more Oxygen you will rapidly lose consciousness and then die.

Not quite. You have to take a breath because you are biochemically programmed to do so - at a level which is a very good way below what kills you - take a trained freediver for example. They're trained to overcome the breathing urge and will exhale gas with as much O2 exchanged for CO2 as is chemically possible. They don't die with a high concentration of CO2 and a low concentration of O2. The urge to breathe is not the end and it doesn't mean you've run out of O2 and are going to die.

If you've got a leaking CO2 cylinder or damaged gas lines in an enclosed space or somewhere with poor low level ventilation, such as down a cellar, and localised Carbon Dioxide levels get elevated, then you may have a few seconds of coughing and gasping for breath to realise that you're in big trouble and get up the steps and out of there.

Probably a little dramatic, but you would know very quickly and a good way before you were in too much trouble that you shouldn't be there.

So long as you have more O2 than C02 then gas transfer will happen to a degree and as soon as you find a higher concentration of O2 you'll revive as good as instantly. CO2 bonds very weakly to haemoglobin (for very good reason) where CO gets a grip and doesn't let go - it DOES poison you, hence my assertion of the buffoonery of the delivery driver.

If you've got a leaking Nitrogen cylinder you would just die, quite quickly and very happily.

Very true. You really wouldn't notice that one coming. You'd happily be expelling CO2 so would have no physiological clues as to your impending (and probably quite nice and fuzzy) loss of conciousness.

 

[Moley]

********.

'scuse me?

1. It's NOT poisonous. Yes it can kill you, NO it's NOT poisonous, NO there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.

My apologies, you are quite correct, CO2 in itself is not toxic.

Apart from that, I think we understand eachother but I was trying to keep the science simple. Hypercapnia will trigger the urge to breathe in your average non-freediver, mess up the balance of O2 and CO2 too much and you've got problems.

CO2 is not poisonous, but that doesn't mean there aren't risks which users of cellar gases ought to be aware of.

 

[calumscott]

********.

'scuse me?

1. It's NOT poisonous. Yes it can kill you, NO it's NOT poisonous, NO there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.

My apologies, you are quite correct, CO2 in itself is not toxic.

Apart from that, I think we understand eachother but I was trying to keep the science simple. Hypercapnia will trigger the urge to breathe in your average non-freediver, mess up the balance of O2 and CO2 too much and you've got problems.

CO2 is not poisonous, but that doesn't mean there aren't risks which users of cellar gases ought to be aware of.

*Nod* and being safe with CO2 is really simple, the same with any relatively inert compressed gas. Keep it secure, ballistic cylinders are not nice. I don't know what the test schedule is for CO2 cylinders but if there is such a thing, make sure the cylinder and valve that's being delivered is in test, ballistic BITS of cylinders are also not nice. Make sure your regulator is serviced according to its schedule. Make sure your gas lines are in tip top condition. Stick to that and your chances of any problem with CO2 are effectively zero.

EDIT: All of which reminds me of the significant bill I'm going to face when I next decide to get underwater... Three cylinder tests and two reg services... ££££

 

[Hawks]

********.

'scuse me?

1. It's NOT poisonous. Yes it can kill you, NO it's NOT poisonous, NO there is no such thing as CO2 poisoning.

My apologies, you are quite correct, CO2 in itself is not toxic.

I disagree - CO2 is toxic. Its not the decreased Oxygen that will kill you, its the increased Carbon Dioxide.

Adding 31 litres of CO2 to a 100 litre enclosed space would result in a 23.7% CO2 by volume in air, which would be almost instantly fatal, and 16% oxygen by volume in air, (equivalent to breathing at 2800 meters above sea level, which is dangerous, because it can lead to poor decision making, but not fatal).

It is the toxic properties of CO2 that is fatal, not the drop in oxygen.

 

[graysalchemy]

We used to use CO2 saturated water to stun fish on the fish farm prior to having their gills slit. It is not used anymore as it is not a nice way of going unconscious. Incidently it is now being used in slaughter houses instead of electric shock to stun sheep and pigs.

Never under estimate CO2 it is a real killer.