Co-Pitching two dried yeasts

[Wiener Blut]

So a while ago @Northern_Brewer alerted me to the practice of blending different dried yeast strains and I want to tried it out. I'm planning on making a bitter with Lallemand Windsor yeast and then adding Nottingham to get it to flocculate and drop (and stay) clear.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I was planning to pitch the Windsor first and then Nottingham at high Kräusen. Would it make a big difference if I pitched them at the same time? Probably less esters from the Windsor, but that's just a guess.

 

[grooves]

I doubt it will make much of a difference. A commercial brewery I know well, use a 50/50 mix of S-O4/Nottingham for their beers - I know because I blagged 2l of slurry from them for a brew of my own. You'll likely get more attenuation than just using one or the other.

 

[NormanHurst]

Presumably the Nottingham increases attenuation as well as the flocculation?

Be interested in seeing how this works for you @Wiener Blut. I really liked the last beer I made with Windsor but would have preferred the FG to have been a few points lower.

 

[grooves]

My understanding is that the different yeasts will have slightly different metabolisation pathways and this is why you end up with more attenuation. You'll also find if you use a mixture of pale malt you'll get better attenuation due to the different enzymes on the different malts - even with the same barley but different maltsters.

 

[Clint]

Won't the yeast with the best attenuation always shine through? If that's the best way to describe it...

 

[Hanglow]

I'd just pitch them at the same time for simplicity, then work from that basis for future brews

It would be nice to know which commercial breweries use which dried yeasts and at what mix and rate. I know there's a Darkstar brewsheet or two showing what they use, but more info from decent/good breweries would be better

 

[Horners]

I'd just pitch them at the same time for simplicity, then work from that basis for future brews

It would be nice to know which commercial breweries use which dried yeasts and at what mix and rate. I know there's a Darkstar brewsheet or two showing what they use, but more info from decent/good breweries would be better

Believe Darkstar use a mix of Notty, S-04 and S-05 in hophead. No idea if they all go in at the same time though.

 

[alefric LeHendz]

I used these two yeasts together in a porter last year and I co-pitched them in a ratio of about 60/40 Windsor/Nottingham. Can't say how it would have varied if I'd staggered it but I am very happy with how that beer turned out

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Would it make a big difference if I pitched them at the same time? Probably less esters from the Windsor, but that's just a guess.

Yep, that's the idea, you want the Windsor to do as much as it can before adding the Notty, which doesn't add much flavour but does give you extra attenuation and flocculation.

 

[Sadfield]

Doesn't need to be limited to two. Playing with the ratios of three or four could be interesting, develop a house blend that is easily managed.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Would you pitch 11g of each yeast or 11g in total into 21 litres?

 

[grooves]

Won't the yeast with the best attenuation always shine through

I think it's actually a bit more complex than that - Nottingham would be higher than S-04 alone, but both together I'd expect to be higher than Nottingham alone. I think you'd have to choose a fermentation temperature wisely if you wanted estery flavours from S-04 because you'd need a higher temp to get these, but that would also encourage the notty to just rip through the fermentation. Anyway - it will be interesting to test out.

half a pack of each would be plenty - if you over pitch the yeast as well as combining them you'll definitely get over attenuation and a super dry beer.

 

[An Ankoù]

Does anyone have any experience with this? I was planning to pitch the Windsor first and then Nottingham at high Kräusen. Would it make a big difference if I pitched them at the same time? Probably less esters from the Windsor, but that's just a guess.
I think you're right. I wouldn't pitch them at the same time, but I wouldn't leave it too late to pitch the second one, either. I would think that the Windsor would give it's character to the beer within three days and the fourth day would be a good time to pitch the Notty. I haven't tried it, but I'm planning to and that's what I intend doing.

You'll also find if you use a mixture of pale malt you'll get better attenuation due to the different enzymes on the different malts - even with the same barley but different maltsters.

Really? I want to believe you and it would be great if that were so. Can you point me in the direction of any documentation on this. Thanks.

 

[Slid]

Won't the yeast with the best attenuation always shine through? If that's the best way to describe it...

Nope, you pitch the first yeast for the esters (Windsor for instance) then add a flocculting (Notty) or attenuating (US05) later.
As I re-use yeast routinely, I just pitch a 250ml bottle of the second yeast at around day 3.
The first pitch yeast does its thing very quickly, as that is its purpose.
The second just does its thing.

 

[Wynne]

I once ran a trial using 1.042 golden ale wort from a local brewery. I fermented 3 small batches, one each with S05 and Nottingham and the third with a 50/50 blend of the two added at the start. Each beer had the same appearance/clarity but a discernible difference in aroma and taste. To me, the batch fermented with Nottingham seemed markedly drier on the pallet and somehow ”flatter” in taste. The batches with S05 and the blend had a more “rounded” and complex flavour with the blend being the most interesting.

 

[Wiener Blut]

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences! I'll start by pitching the Windsor then and adding Notts a couple of days later. Will let you know how I get on.

I probably wouldn't even be doing this if I had a decent amount of British liquid yeasts available here. I'd have to order online and I'm a bit wary of doing that with these freezing temperatures around.

 

[lupinehorror]

did this with a brew earlier in the week before seeing this thread. will admit to having done no research beforehand also.
whatever yeast came with the young's barley wine kit along with CML kentucky. it certainly going strong after 3 days.
added two packs as i'd stuck in an extra kilo of fermentables on top of what was required.

 

[Scottyburto]

I was interested in whether you can ferment with an ale yeast and prime with a wine/champagne yeast. I'm struggling to enjoy sweet beers at the moment.

 

[buddsy]

Im planning on doing David Heaths Dubbel for my next brew. I have all the malts and yeast.

He calls for-

Yeast (Both pitched at start)
1 pkg - Lallemand Voss Kveik
1 pkg - Fermentis Abbey Ale BE-256

Im going to give it a go.

buddsy

 

[johncrobinson]

The sugars in beers are complex compared to wine so the wine yeast has evolved to tackle mainly simple sugars.

A further complication is that the champagne yeast ec-1118 is a killer yeast it wont co-exist with other yeasts.
So you would have to use it after the other yeast has done its work.The previous yeast would then be simply food for the ec-1118.

Adding plain sugar and ec1118 would give you some seriously strong beer

But for what it would cost why not try it