Cleansing & sanitising - will this do it?

[Brewski]

I'm preparing for my first beer kit home brew and after doing some research on cleansing and sanitising, I'd appreciate some feedback on my planned approach.

Cleaning products:
Non-scented "Oxy" type cleaner from HomeBargains/Pound land or wherever.
StarSan HB (+ Tesco Ashbeck still water 5L).

1: Before primary fermentation.

To cleanse:
Fill FV with hot tap water.
Dissolve 2 tablespoons of Oxy in the water.
Replace FV lid and give it a good shake/swirl.
Put stirring paddle, airlock, hydrometer, sampling jar inside FV.
Leave for 60-90 mins.
Empty the water from the FV.
Rinse everything several times with cold tap water.

To sanitise:
Dissolve 7.5ml Starsan in the Tesco Ashbeck still water 5L bottle and pour into the FV.
Replace FV lid and give it a good shake/swirl for 1 minute.
Put the other equipment inside FV, like before.
Leave for 5 minutes.
Pour the Solution back into the water bottle (for re-using).
Don't rinse but allow the FV to drain before using.


2: Before secondary fermentation (recycled glass beer bottles).

To cleanse:
Soak bottles in hot water & Oxy solution, same concentration as above.
Leave for 24 hours.
Scrub if necessary (bottle brush).
Rinse bottles several times with cold tap water.

To sanitise:
Re-use the 5L Starsan solution used previously.
Submerge bottles and caps in the solution for 1 minute.
Don't rinse but drain before use.


I know it'll take some time to do the bottles this way (I might get 2x 5L bottles of water for the Starsan instead of just 1) but should this approach do the job?

 

[Yeastmaster]

Welcome to home brewing!

Sounds like a very thorough procedure to me. Star san foams like crazy so remember that before shaking it. It's brilliant stuff though.

I get away with just hot water and fairy liquid for all cleaning and then rinse really well so there's no soap taste. The bottles I wash straightaway and dry on the radiator in winter and in conservatory in summer before I store them sealed with a little bit of cling wrap over the opening.

For sanitising I also use star san mixed with distilled water (planning to use water from my tumble dryer in future because it's free and has similar properties) - I just spray it onto anything that will come into contact with the beer using a spray bottle and leave it for 1min. Bottles I rinse with star san just before filling them.

Have never had any problems - fingers crossed!

Which kit are you doing?

 

[brewpirate]

+1 on distilled water for starsan

 

[BruinTuns]

How clear should Star San be after it's mixed to 'no rinse' strength? I used it for the first time yesterday. I made it up with Tesco cheapy mineral water (17p per 2l) but it still went milky almost immediately. Should it be see-through? And if it isn't does that mean it won't work?

 

[Yeastmaster]

From what I've read the milkier star san is the less effective it is. Apparently it has to do with the PH - most water (tap and bottled) contains minerals which make it more alkaline, which then neutralises the acid in star san. Star san is essentially an acid which ruptures the membranes of microorganisms which kills them, so if you use higher PH water it binds with the acid and neutralises it, making it ineffective.

I use distilled water (cheaply available from halfords) because it is completely devoid of minerals and therefore doesn't go milky at all - looks like ordinary water even after I've rinsed 40 bottles with it and the solution is months old.
I've now prepared a batch of star san with water from my tumble dryer. It's been sitting in the bottle for almost a week and last time I checked it's still not milky, which makes me think it's just as good as distilled water and it doesn't cost me anything.

I've never used even slightly milky star san mixture so I don't know how effective it is based on my own experience.

 

[Brewski]

Thanks for the welcome, Yeastmaster. I wondered if I'm being too thorough but being my first home brew I want to make sure I don't mess it up. The kit I'll be using is the John Bull IPA.

Regarding Starsan, I too have read that it often goes cloudy in tap water and many bottled waters (possibly due to pH), which could mean the solution is sub-optimal for cleansing although some people say it's fine for single use. I nearly opted for another sanitiser because of the uncertainty until I read that someone had used Starsan with the Tesco Ashbeck water with no cloudiness whatsoever.

I had considered using distilled water (and reverse osmosis "RO" water) but after a quick google it seemed very expensive.

Out of curiosity, how much is distilled water from Halfords?

Edit: is this it?http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...ery-chargers/halfords-battery-top-up-water-5l

 

[Yeastmaster]

I've just checked and my 5l bottle says it's Car Plan De-ionised water; was also £3 at the time. The guy in Halfords told me it's essentially the same thing, just a different process. Mixed with star san it's enough for about 8 batches of beer Using the spray bottle method. HHave also heard ashbeck is fine but have never tried it.
John Bull IPA sounds brilliant!

 

[Brewski]

Cheers, I'll give that water a try. I like the sound of the spray bottle method too - much more efficient than submerging everything.

 

[BruinTuns]

Cheers Yeastmaster.

Brewski, I've also read that Ashbeck is fine with Star San but the water I used, although also from Tesco, was the Everyday Value one which may be different.
Re the Halfords water this link suggests that it should be fine as - apparently - de-ionized (DI) water is extremely low in mineral deposits: http://www.distilleddeionizedwater.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water/
I think I'll try Ashbeck first as it's only about a quid for 5l. Diluting Star San at 1.5ml per litre, and re-using the solution, means that the Halford's DI water at £3 is affordable but the £2 price difference would be well worth saving.

Btw, would water that had been boiled and cooled work do you think? I might try that right now..

 

[Yeastmaster]

Give boiling it a go and let us know how it turns out.

When I switched to star san I tried using tesco value water and britta filtered water and they both went cloudy. Then went for deionised instead to be safe.

Will let you know if I run into problems with water from my tumble dryer.

 

[MyQul]

Btw, would water that had been boiled and cooled work do you think? I might try that right now..

Yes. Head over to you tube to find out how to distil your own water ( BT- your gonna be spending a lot of time on you tube what with this and learning how to wash yeast and make starters :lol:) .
There seems to be two distict methods of doing this. 1. An easier method involving plastic tubing 2. A harder method using a big pot.
I had a go yesterday at distilling water using method 2 as I have big pot and no tubing plus I only needed less than an egg cup full to calibrate my refractometer. In the end I cocked it up.

Reading all the above. Yes use distilled water, this will definatley make sure it's working properly. But you don't have to. I've got about 30+ brews under my belt now, most using star san. I simply brita filter my water (to get the chlorine out) and make up the star san with it. Yes, it goes cloudy but I've never had an infection using and reusing it

 

[MyQul]

.

Will let you know if I run into problems with water from my tumble dryer.

Tumble dry water seem the perfect solution for distilled water as it's a re-cyled by product and doesn't cost anthything.

have you tried tasting it to see if it imparts any taste to your beer?

 

[BruinTuns]

Ok, I've just tried making it up with boiled water and it went milky straightaway, virtually opaque after a further 2 minutes. For comparison I tried again with half a pint straight from the tap and the results are indistinguishable to the eye.
It may be that I didn't leave it in the kettle for long enough after it had boiled (for the deposits to settle) but it's looking like a trip to Tesco or Halfords..

 

[Brewski]

Bruintuns, by all means give boiling the water a try, however I don't think it'll work unless you condense the vapour.

Yeastmaster, I don't know what tumble dryers do to mains water but it's worth a try. (Unfortunately I don't have one and I don't think a mangle will make any difference. :) )

 

[BruinTuns]

Brewski, well you're right about it not working. Condensing the vapour sounds like infinitely too much faff and I'd have no clue how to, although MyQul posted while I was typing earlier, thanks for the youtube info MyQul. I'll take a look at those methods but if Ashbeck works I'll probably go with it.
Although, come to think of it, all mineral water contains, well, minerals, which is one reason why people buy it.
I believe a lot of these natural constituens are alkaline such as calcium carbonate, so I'm surprised, thinking about it now, that any mineral water, including Asbeck, are supposedly ok with Star San. Hm..

I think I've read of one or two others who report no issues with milky Star San but I've also read posts by brewers who proudly proclaim that they've never sanitised in their lives and never had an infected batch. I think dear old Lady Luck must play a part in all this..

 

[Yeastmaster]

Tumble dry water seem the perfect solution for distilled water as it's a re-cyled by product and doesn't cost anthything.

have you tried tasting it to see if it imparts any taste to your beer?

MyQul I followed your advice and just tasted - and swallowed - the water my tumble dryer extracts from our clothes (before star san is added). Needless to say I shall not mention this to anybody outside the home brewing community!

I can report that even after filtering with the Britta it tastes predominantly of washing powder, fabric softener and with a hint of what I think can only be wet cotton and polyester!

Any beer sanitised with this water should be thoroughly dry hopped!

A bit of fluff has also collected in the bottom of the bottel which I assume will add body!

 

[MyQul]

I think I've read of one or two others who report no issues with milky Star San but I've also read posts by brewers who proudly proclaim that they've never sanitised in their lives and never had an infected batch. I think dear old Lady Luck must play a part in all this..

I think the biggest 'pro' of star san' is ease of use and convience. Yes, you can just boil stuff and never get an infection but It's the faff of it that puts me off. It's why I swapped from using milton fluid to star san

 

[Brewski]

Bruintuns, I agree that diy distilled water is too much faff.

I also agree with what you said about lady luck - I wonder how many people have been using Starsan with completely unsuitable water yet haven't had a brew go bad, purely because of good luck?

I've now ordered some Starsan and will take my chances with either the Halfords water or the Tesco Ashbeck water.

*Note to self* If invited to Yeastmaster's, switch to spirits.

 

[MyQul]

MyQul I followed your advice and just tasted - and swallowed - the water my tumble dryer extracts from our clothes (before star san is added). Needless to say I shall not mention this to anybody outside the home brewing community!

I can report that even after filtering with the Britta it tastes predominantly of washing powder, fabric softener and with a hint of what I think can only be wet cotton and polyester!

Any beer sanitised with this water should be thoroughly dry hopped!

A bit of fluff has also collected in the bottom of the bottel which I assume will add body!

:lol::lol:

I didn't advice you do it, just asked if you have.

Having said that I would have had a go. (I've tried diluted star san btw)

 

[BruinTuns]

Re Star San, the instructions stipulate allowing it to air-dry. Is this to increase effectiveness or so it doesn't leave any taste? And how long should we leave it?
I confess that when I used it yesterday for the first time I was in a bit of a hurry and resorted to wiping dry with kitchen roll. The bottles I inverted for 10 minutes. It was slightly disconcerting to see a few frothy bubbles left inside some of them.