Cleaner / Sanitiser / CleanerSanitizer Hell!

[Pivovar]

Hi Brewers ..

Up until now Iv'e been using Brewers Oxyclean as a cleaner and StarSan as
a sanitiser ... :thumb:

Whenever I go to buy a new CLEANER I just get confused..

What does everyone use, for plastics?

Some people appear to ONLY use StarSan and not use a cleaner first?

Any advice would be useful...

Cheers, and Good 'Elf!

 

[MyQul]

Star san is NOT a cleaner you need to somehow clean your kit before sanitising with it.

Now you dont HAVE to use a cleaning product as long as you can get to every nook and cranny with a soft cloth, warm water and elbow grease.

Your regime sounds good. Oxi-clean before (I always rinse this off and if in doubt give things a quick rub with a new j-clothe) to clean, then star san to santise.

 

[photek1000]

I either just use (Really) hot water for cleaning and some elbow grease, or a bigger dose of Chemipro OXI as I find it agitates any stubborn grubby bits, I then also use Chemipro OXI as my sanitiser,

It's what I've always used due to the water around here, but I have just picked up some StarSan cheap to try in some bottled water.

 

[MyQul]

I either just use (Really) hot water for cleaning and some elbow grease, or a bigger dose of Chemipro OXI as I find it agitates any stubborn grubby bits, I then also use Chemipro OXI as my sanitiser,

It's what I've always used due to the water around here, but I have just picked up some StarSan cheap to try in some bottled water.

You can use star san with hard water. I have hard water and the diluted star san immedietly goes cloudy. Is still works fine. As long as you keep the ph <3. The hardness of the water possibly might mean you need a little more undiluted star san to initially get it below 3PH (I test mine with ph strips from ebay which you can get loads for a pound)

 

[Gerryjo]

For anyone interested I've come across this sanitiser available from a wholesalers local to me and at £4.50 for 5 litres it's an absolute bargain.30 second contact,foodsafe,no rinse and diluted at 1/30.

Food Safe Sanitiser
5L
An odourless food safe cleaner suitable for use on most hard surfaces. It is effective against most common forms of bacteria including MRSA, making it ideal for use in kitchens, food preparation areas, hospitals and nursing homes. Complies with BSEN1276.

For general purpose cleaning, dilute 1 part product with 30 parts of water. Spray or wipe solution onto the surface, allow few seconds to react and wipe clean with a damp cloth, no need to rinse. Food Safe Sanitiser may be used to clean and disinfect a variety of hard surfaces including tables, worktops, sinks, draining boards, cupboard fronts, external equipment surfaces, walls and floors. Always clean vertical surfaces from the bottom up to avoid unsightly streaking.

http://www.greyland.co.uk/product/food-safe-sanitiser/

 

[MyQul]

For anyone interested I've come across this sanitiser available from a wholesalers local to me and at �£4.50 for 5 litres it's an absolute bargain.30 second contact,foodsafe,no rinse and diluted at 1/30.

Food Safe Sanitiser
5L
An odourless food safe cleaner suitable for use on most hard surfaces. It is effective against most common forms of bacteria including MRSA, making it ideal for use in kitchens, food preparation areas, hospitals and nursing homes. Complies with BSEN1276.

For general purpose cleaning, dilute 1 part product with 30 parts of water. Spray or wipe solution onto the surface, allow few seconds to react and wipe clean with a damp cloth, no need to rinse. Food Safe Sanitiser may be used to clean and disinfect a variety of hard surfaces including tables, worktops, sinks, draining boards, cupboard fronts, external equipment surfaces, walls and floors. Always clean vertical surfaces from the bottom up to avoid unsightly streaking.

http://www.greyland.co.uk/product/food-safe-sanitiser/

Wonder if it's re-useable? If it is I'd be able to make one jerry-can last the rest of my life (and pass it on to Grandchildren :lol:) judging by how long I've managed to make my bottle of starsan last

 

[Bigjas]

I use VWP for cleaning and StarSan as a sanitiser. It works well for me, just need to make sure the VWP is well rinsed. I use it on plastic and metal and works very well.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
@Gerryjo
That's 150 litres for �£4.50: 3p per litre. Not bad!
Charlie Talley's bleach & vinegar sanitiser works out at 0.2p per litre.
Cheap bleach 2 litres 29p, Distilled vinegar 568 ml 39p
Will make 250 litres no-rinse sanitiser: 0.2p per litre.
The beauty of StarSan is that it can be used over again as long as the pH stays below 3.
I discard the bleach/vinegar solution as I use it.
The StarSan may work out to be cheaper in the long run, although more expensive for the initial purchase.

 

[MyQul]

Hi!
@Gerryjo
That's 150 litres for ��£4.50: 3p per litre. Not bad!
Charlie Talley's bleach & vinegar sanitiser works out at 0.2p per litre.
Cheap bleach 2 litres 29p, Distilled vinegar 568 ml 39p
Will make 250 litres no-rinse sanitiser: 0.2p per litre.
The beauty of StarSan is that it can be used over again as long as the pH stays below 3.
I discard the bleach/vinegar solution as I use it.
The StarSan may work out to be cheaper in the long run, although more expensive for the initial purchase.

I've had my bottle for about 4 years now and still got about 1/5th left

 

[Gerryjo]

One thing I notice about starsan is the metallic note I've smelled after a few days if left in the fermenter..
Still haven't tried bleach/vinegar mix but I'm sure we shall sometime...

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Do not use a "damp" cloth. Use paper towel instead.

 

[AdeDunn]

If there's nothing to be suspicious about, I wash my equipment with oxi using a fresh dish sponge (non-stick ones), after soaking in this for about 15 minutes even krausen ring comes off no bother. I then rinse really well (I use the running water method, rather than fill and tip), and put it away.

If I have reason to be suspicious (eg. last brew in there went wrong in some way) or it's been a while, I wash in a similar manner but using VWP, and rinse even more thoroughly as the stuff is really hard to get rid of completely. Then I put my kit away.

When I come to use my equipment, I sanitise it with Starsan, usually using a sprayer filled with Starsan diluted with reverse osmosis water, leaving this on for about 15 minutes then just draining the excess away (no rinse, no wipe). No point using sanitiser until it's near the time you are going to use the equipment as the effect of it doesn't last that long, you'd be sanitising for it to just sit there, then it'd stop working and bacteria moves in and you have to sanitise again anyway. I don't sanitise hot side equipment (stuff used before the boil).

I keep the sprayer of Starsan handy whilst brewing too, for those "I'd best give this a quick sanitise" moments (eg. You realise you put something down on a non-sanitised surface...), along with a bottle of hand sanitiser.

 

[foxbat]

For anyone interested I've come across this sanitiser available from a wholesalers local to me and at £4.50 for 5 litres it's an absolute bargain.

I downloaded the datasheet fully expecting this to contain chlorine donors and therefore be risky to use in the presence of yeast but was pleasantly surprised to see that it looks a lot like Starsan.

My Chemistry is rusty and my organic chemistry worse but to me it looks like a phosphoric acid sanitiser with surfactants. Starsan, basically.

Anybody here care to verify?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Hot, soapy water, soft cloth, rinse well.
Before you use, just spray with sanitizer, quick rinse with boiling water and wipe dry with paper towel.

 

[MyQul]

Hot, soapy water, soft cloth, rinse well.
Before you use, just spray with sanitizer, quick rinse with boiling water and wipe dry with paper towel.

I'd be wary about the soap, as this can effect head retention. Other than that, this is how I clean and sanitise my FV before transfering the wort into it

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This old post will keep you busy for a while :wink:




Here is a list of cleaners and sterilsers with dilution rates and breif descriptions of uses to use as a guide for any members looking for alternative cleaners or sterilisers.

As with all Cleaners and sterilisers Precautions must be taken. Read the instructions, Wear rubber gloves in some cases thick heavy duty rubber gloves, wear eye protection, and don't spill them on any surface you may want to keep looking nice. And most importantly Keep out of reach of children!


Washing Soda 2 tablespoons per Litre
Also known as Sodium Carbonate. The crystals are dissolved in hot water and the equipment left to soak for about 20 minutes. Rinse equipment thoroughly after use. Not as effective as Caustic Soda and no sterilising power.


OxyClean 1 Scoop per 10 litre for light cleaning, 1 scoop per 2.5 litre for heavy cleaning.
Good all purpose cleaner with no sterilising powers. Best mixed with warm to hot water. Cleaning action lasts for 6 hrs. Do not store mixed solution in sealed bottles, the oxygen released will cause it to pop. Will need rinsing prior to sterilising.


Household Bleach 2.5ml per Litre
Can be used diluted with water to clean and sterilise plastic equipment and glass bottles. Thick bleach is better at cleaning as it foams and thin bleach is better at sterilising, Also don't use the fragranced stuff it may leave some flavours in your equipment.
Corrosive to stainless steel if left for any length of time and will also blacken and corrode brass and copper.
Needs thorough rinsing of cleaned items with hot water to remove any taints. Precautions needed when handling are goggles and rubber gloves.


VWP 1/2 teaspoon per Litre
An all purpose chlorine based cleaner/steriliser. Can be mixed to the above ratio in warm water will clean all your homebrewing equipment in around 10 minutes. It WILL release a chlorine based gas and care should be taken not to inhale it when you first add it to your water and any other time. Will need several hot water rinses to remove any taints that may be left. It's known for sticking around inside Fv's etc. Wear gloves and goggles.


Videne 1.25ml per Litre
You need the Antiseptic Solution not the Tincture. This is a No rinse solution at the above rate and is only a steriliser it has no cleaning powers and is Iodophor based. Can be mixed up into spray bottles and stored until it the colour fades, ideally with low alkalinity and Chlorine Free water.


Five Star, Io Star 1.5ml per Litre for a spray on solution.
A product from the USA same principals as Videne but has loads more info on the Fact sheets see Clicky. This sheet gives differing contact times per usage and strengths. But for most home brewers usage this would be the above ratio with 1 min contact time and drain, No need to rinse. Wear gloves and goggles.


Five Star, Star San 1.5ml per Litre
Star San is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and is also a self foaming sanitizer. It can be applied through a foamer to produce self-adhering sanitizing foam for external sanitation. It is not recommended to use STAR SAN on soft metals because of the acid nature of this product. At the above ratio a 1-2 min contact time is recommended, Star san is a no rinse sanitiser. Wear gloves and goggles.


Star San 1.5ml per Litre
Another “terminal disinfectant� based on phosphoric acid which again doesn't need rinsing, this product is diluted with water and may be sprayed on items or just used as a rinse. The solution may be re-used as long as the pH stays below about 3.0. Not suitable for dilution with hard water as the alkalinity will partly neutralise the acid causing it to be ineffective. Precautions, use goggles and rubber gloves when handling the concentrated product.


Antiformin S 1-2% solution in cold Water
This product is a caustic based cleaner with an added chlorine donor. It comes supplied in liquid form and will thoroughly clean equipment whilst being effective against most bacteria. This is not corrosive to stainless steel when used at the recommended dilution and rinsed with hot water. But is corrosive to Aluminium and Zinc. Needs thorough rinsing after use. Precautions needed when handing are goggles and rubber gloves.


Caustic Soda 25 gram per Litre
Also known as Sodium Hydroxide, this cheap and powerful cleaner is available in crystal form and may be used for normal cleaning and sterilisation purposes by making up in cold water, or for heavily soiled items and stubborn deposits at 50g per 1L of water. The advantages are a very effective cleaner whilst also providing some degree of sterilising power.
A very thorough rinsing with hot water is necessary after use and this cleaner is strongly corrosive to aluminium, also will leave deposits on vessels when used in areas with very hard water. Precautions needed when handling are goggles and heavy duty rubber gloves, as this product can cause severe burns to skin.


Fam 30 5.5ml per liter
A Iodophor based disinfectant designed for dairy use as a no rinse terminal disinfectant, but also has cleaning powers at the above ratio's. Can be purchased from farm supplies stores and only comes in 5 ltr containers. An alternative to the more nasty Peracetic Acid. Use gloves and goggles


Peracetic Acid 10ml per Litre
This has in recent years become the standard disinfectant for the brewing industry and is a blend of hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid which is extremely effective against a wide range of bacteria. It's supplied as a 5% solution which is diluted with cold water and may be conveniently sprayed on pre-cleaned items. Can be used as a soak solution at the above rate, recommended contact time for soaking is 20 mins but anything over 30 seconds will have worked. Peracetic Acid may be used as a “terminal disinfectant� immediately prior to use and does not require rinsing. Will not corrode stainless steel. Don't use on Copper or Zinc. No cleaning power. Extremely harmful to skin. Precautions needed are goggles and heavy duty rubber gloves strongly recommended. This is also a mucosal irritant, do not inhale, use in a very well ventilated area, the vapours alone will make your eyes stream.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

I'd be wary about the soap, as this can effect head retention. Other than that, this is how I clean and sanitise my FV before transfering the wort into it

At the risk of being laughed at and told where to go. I am now going to explain how to use washing up liquid. You might laugh.....
Fill a bowl/container with "hand hot water" then add the washing up liquid. Do not try to create bubbles, all you get is a bowl of bubbly water. All the good chemicals are in these bubbles. If you add the washing up liquid after the water, the chemicals in the soap retain the nasties in the solution.
This also applies to any hand washing of cups/plates/ saucepans.
I have been laughed at, at work for telling the Kitchen Porters this, but believe me

 

[MyQul]

At the risk of being laughed at and told where to go. I am now going to explain how to use washing up liquid. You might laugh.....
Fill a bowl/container with "hand hot water" then add the washing up liquid. Do not try to create bubbles, all you get is a bowl of bubbly water. All the good chemicals are in these bubbles. If you add the washing up liquid after the water, the chemicals in the soap retain the nasties in the solution.
This also applies to any hand washing of cups/plates/ saucepans.
I have been laughed at, at work for telling the Kitchen Porters this, but believe me

Whether this is the correct way to use washing up liquid to clean things or not, it's not really relevant to my point about washing up liquid killing the head on beer. Or am I missing somethingin your explanation?

 

[Clint]

Doesn't washing up liquid contain formaldehyde?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Whether this is the correct way to use washing up liquid to clean things or not, it's not really relevant to my point about washing up liquid killing the head on beer. Or am I missing somethingin your explanation?

Its never been proven