Cider making advice

[HarryFlatters]

unless anyone knows of any shops that sell it in the evenings in Edinburgh!

Brewstore up South Clark Street might be open at night www.brewstore.co.uk/

 

[lium]

They close at 6pm - not gonna make it!

 

[HarryFlatters]

Wilko at Fort Kinnaird?

Open until 9pm..?

 

[lium]

Wilko at Fort Kinnaird?

Open until 9pm..?

That's a good shout - I'm out and about tonight (buying used homebrew kit on Gumtree!) and will drop by to see if they sell yeast.

 

[DavieC]

Any fermentation today?I also added pectolaise from wilkos along with the yeast to my 2nd batch cider,cleared crystal clear much quicker than the batch without it.

 

[lium]

Any fermentation today?I also added pectolaise from wilkos along with the yeast to my 2nd batch cider,cleared crystal clear much quicker than the batch without it.

Well I bought a new sachet of yeast and pectolase from Wilko's last night. I added some pectolase to the bucket. With the yeast, I hydrated it with some fresh apple juice (only containing ascorbic acid) water and regular granulated sugar - within 10 minutes that was frothing away, so I pitched it in. I also changed the grommet on my lid so I'm fairly certain it has a good seal now.

I also separated some of the juice out into a small demijohn, pitched some of the hydrated yeast in, corked and airlocked it, then put it in a warmer place.

Unfortunately there was still no fermentation action this morning!

Spoke to someone who said he'd tried to brew cider once and put too much campden in - even pitching more yeast after a week didn't help. He reckons I will just have 20 litres of apple juice!

Is there any way of neutralising/removing the campden?

 

[Ron Bell]

I'm very new to cider brewing - recently bottled my first ever batch from 3 demijohns - but I have decided that I am not going to add Camdens to the brew at all. Many experienced ciderists say they don't and have never had a problem. If I get problems with bacteria, I might change my mind about that(!) - but my suspicion would be that is what caused your fermentation to stick. I just started my second ever batch of 4 demijohns going in our kitchen - about 18-20 degrees and, after the first day of not much happening, all four roared into life and heve been bubbling away since.

 

[lium]

I think you are right - it must be the campden powder that is acting as a preservative and preventing the yeast from working, even after 10 days and pitching new yeast. Maybe crushed campden tablets would have been fine, but I suspect 5 level teaspoons of campden powder is way too much for 4.5 gallons.

 

[lium]

This is the very stuff I bought, including instructions. Maybe I was not precise enough as it sounds like a little too much can ruin a brew!

https://www.brewstore.co.uk/campden-powder

 

[Ron Bell]

Yes, seems like you aimed to just put in the amount recommended - but, as you suggest, maybe you just added a bit too much. Guess you could just add a whole load more juice and dilute the camden sufficiently that it won't kill off the new yeast.

 

[terrym]

Someone in a brew shop told me that the gas would eventually escape from plastic bottles after a few months... maybe he was hoping I would buy bottles from them...

I keep some of my beer in PET bottles and have not suffered any loss of pressure after six months. I opened a PET bottle with a year old beer in it recently and that was the same too.

 

[phillc]

I'm very new to cider brewing - recently bottled my first ever batch from 3 demijohns - but I have decided that I am not going to add Camdens to the brew at all.

I'm not that experienced with cider, this is just my second season and I've probably brewed around 200 litres. I've never used Campden during first ferment. I've ruined a few batches transferring to a new vessel for second ferment and ending up with a lacto infection. I think addition of Campden may have saved these batches, which is what I would do in the future. However, generally I'm bottling straight away now after a 2 week first ferment and letting it mature in the bottle.

 

[lium]

Yes, seems like you aimed to just put in the amount recommended - but, as you suggest, maybe you just added a bit too much. Guess you could just add a whole load more juice and dilute the camden sufficiently that it won't kill off the new yeast.

OK - that's an interesting option. My neighbour says he still has bags of apples, although they are cooking apples, so that would change the character of the cider I guess... but I might get cider at least! Not sure I want to go through the rigmarole of pressing more apples though!

The other option I have is decanting to another vessel and back again. This splashing it about allows the sulphur gas in solution to dissipate in the air. Oxidisation is not a concern as it is well preserved! I might as well try this first and add more yeast again - I understand you can never add too much yeast! In the meantime, I may take some apples off my neighbour and freeze them, in case I have to double the quantity of juice to dilute the campden.

I may end up with 44 litres of cider instead of 22 - I could live with that!

 

[VW911]

All the sulphur dioxide does is inhibit the growth of any bacteria (yesat included.)
A good aeration, followed by repitching yeast should get it going again.
A teaspoon per gallon is WAAAYYY too much - but it should dissipate with a good frothing!!!

 

[lium]

It was a half teaspoon per gallon, as per the instructions on the packet:

'use 1 level teaspoon (2.5g) which is equivalent to a campden tablet and sufficient for 1 gallon (5 Litres of wine, cider, mead). A higher dose of 2 teaspoons per gallon can be used for longer term storage of your brew to prevent oxidation of wines or ports which you plan to lay down for several years.'

A level teaspoon is half a teaspoon. I was probably not very careful with my measures and I think I put 5 generous level teaspoons into 4.5 gallons, plus one for luck (!) , so I don't think I put WAAAAY too much in! But only a little bit more can have a big effect, it seems.

2.5g per gallon should dissipate in 24 hours, but 10g per gallon is for long term storage, i.e. suppresses yeast for several years!

There's 50g in the whole packet - I may measure how much is left tonight! I think at least half. My guess is I put in about 4g per gallon. There should be a warning on these packets!

 

[VW911]

It really is horrible stuff.
A few years ago my puppy stole a pot of them from the worktop.
I think she only ate about half a dozen of them, but the blood and gunk that she chucked out really was horrible...
(I don't use them at all now...)

 

[DavieC]

Sounds like a good stirring and aerating might be your answer Lium. Let us know how you get on because I've only just started brewing and trying to learn quickly! Ta

 

[lium]

The juice that I pasteurised (no campden powder) is down to 1000 so it's definitely the campden that's caused the problem with the bucket batch.

In another demijohn I've diluted some of the big bucket batch with a carton of fresh apple juice - I'll see if that kicks things off. Might try stirring/decanting the big bucket tomorrow and pitch more yeast on Saturday.

Out of 50g of campden powder, I have 27g left, so I must've put 23g in - about double what I should have. Not completely disastrous, I hope.

Pasteurisation is the way forward I think!

 

[DavieC]

I put 2 crushed Campden tabs in 10 ltrs (batch 1) but didn't put any in batch 2,just the pectolaise,nutrient and yeast,no pasturising either.Batch 2 turned out better than batch 1.Batch 2 is all in the bottles now with a level teaspoon sugar and nicely carbed.Batch 1 still clearing under airlock.I only used 1 apple variety though so taste not quite there but not too bad.og 1046 fg 1003. (fairly dry to taste)

 

[lium]

The demijohn with some of the juice with too much campden and a carton of fresh juice is showing a little bit of activity today, but not enough to bubble through the airlock.

I may need to try decanting, stirring and splashing to try to remove the sulphide AND dilute with Aldi's fresh apple juice in order to save the brew.

I suspect that even the recommended amount of 2.5g campden powder per gallon is still way too much.