Casking and Priming

[Bertie Doe]

Casking: Is a fv ok for casking
Priming: How much for 20l beer.

Update- got the answer to the above
Casking: Wood or metal is best, but plastic will suffice, between 1 month and 12, depending on abv.

Priming: If cane sugar is used in the ingredients, then 50g should be ok for 20l.

 

[PhatFil]

priming with sugar will allow carbonation of the beer when enclosed in a pressure tight vessel such as a plastic pressure barrel or corny keg or bottle.

if casking in a fv or polypin, or bag in a box where there is no capacity to hold pressure there is no need to add primming sugar as this will create excess co2 which will need to be let off to avoid bursting of the vessel you use. you will not get a fizzy beer , but a flater beer when casking without pressure

so just add your beer to the sterile FV and seal, some residual fermentation will continue and some co2 will still be released so you will want to keep an eye on it and release the pressure every now and again if using a scewtop sealed vessel

the down side will be that once you start drinking air will be sucked in and your beer will have a relatively short life.
pressure barrels use the co2 generated from the priming sugars to build up pressure so when you drink the beer comes out and no air goes in, well thats the theory in reality the co2 built up runs out before the beer is finished and thats why the co2 injection systems exist, the other benefit of co2 injection systems is you can fill your vessels with heavy co2 prior to syphoning beer into them thus avoiding air contamination as much as possible.

the bag in the box systems like wine boxes seem to me to be the best way to cask non fizzy beers as the bag collapses with each pint drunk and will not encourage air to be sucked in. tho ive not used one only read about them. polypins are the next best thing but you have to remember to push on the polypin when you open the tap to create a bit of pressure to again avoid air getting sucked in.. if you do use polypins, keep em in the box and cut a hand shaped hole in the top so you can push down on the bag when u pour the box keeps the bag stable and minimises any sediment disruption..
when you drink down you can gently tip the box forward keepin the beer level above the tap so you can get most of the beer out.
polypins are reusable, ive used em as fermenting vessels as well as flater beer casks, i think the beer in bag boxes are one use only but i have never used one so cant comment with authority.

all you need is one gulp of air to get in via the tap to contaminate the whole batch.. if however its being casked for a one off party and its gonna get drunk in one session who cares :)


in the cold you do have the opportunity to maintain a modicom of fizz or life in the beer as if chilled the beer will absorb the co2 from the residual fermentation, that is if its not too cold for the residual fermentation to complete but thats down to the yeast you use.
let us know how you get on..

 

[Bertie Doe]

Thanks Phatfil, here's the background: My first AG attempt was a partial failure, because I was woefully short on FG and had to rescue the batch will 400g of sugar.
After a couple of weeks FG was stable, so I racked from the primary into a secondary FV. Next w/end it is my intention to batch prime with 50g syrup and bottle. Leave indoors for a week, then transfer to the (now defunct) coal shed to hibernate. This batch should be drinkable from mid March.
I'm not sure whether to use crown caps or swing-cage. I guess crowns would be safer?

 

[PhatFil]

Thanks Phatfil, here's the background: My first AG attempt was a partial failure, because I was woefully short on FG and had to rescue the batch will 400g of sugar.
After a couple of weeks FG was stable, so I racked from the primary into a secondary FV. Next w/end it is my intention to batch prime with 50g syrup and bottle. Leave indoors for a week, then transfer to the (now defunct) coal shed to hibernate. This batch should be drinkable from mid March.
I'm not sure whether to use crown caps or swing-cage. I guess crowns would be safer?

You rescued the batch so no failure.. in my limited experience with AG (less than 12 months) its Very Forgiving! (all the errors i made and still got good beer out!)
if you have 'grolsh' bottles i would use them, much easier, in my opinion. i dont understand why crown caps would be safer?


Also you may be very surprised, AG brews are quaffable much quicker than kit brews i would start sampleing mid Jan if i were you. otherwise i cant fault your plan.. at all.. whats on the list for your next brewday.. i started 2011 with lots of brews, come summer i sat on my arse, by the end of summer i was out of beer, and thats not a good situation to be in!

 

[Bertie Doe]

Also you may be very surprised, AG brews are quaffable much quicker than kit brews i would start sampleing mid Jan if i were you. otherwise i cant fault your plan.. at all.. whats on the list for your next brewday.. i started 2011 with lots of brews, come summer i sat on my arse, by the end of summer i was out of beer, and thats not a good situation to be in!

I should have wrote 'consumable by mid March' I'm basing this date on what I have maturing in my stash, plus an estimate of how many visitors I'll be getting. I'm trying to master one recipe before I move onto the next (a mammoth tusk :)

Couple of brews ago, I did a Graham Wheeler Theakston's Best, not the AG but the grain and spraymalt recipe. It tasted ok but I was hoping to get some better head retention - hence my question about priming the recent AG batch. I was concerned about overpriming and I had heard that crown caps would act as a safety valve, whereas swing caps (Grolsh type) are more secure and could produce bursting bottles. Dunno how true this is.

The reason why I had to rescue the last AG batch, was due to me getting the sparge temperatures wrong, so failed to get total sugar extraction from the grain. I'm going to try Theakston's Best again, using all grain and this time 'get it right'. I'll follow GT's advice and rely on natural fermentation to provide head retention. If this doesn't work, I may add 5% of torrified wheat and also some unmalted whole-grain barley.

 

[PhatFil]

no one wants burst bottles, your right, but i think you would need to really over do the primming.. some years ago i once added a heaped teaspoon per pint bottle before i had the DUH! moment and realised i had misread and should have been using 1/2 a teaspoon.. even those bottles didnt burst, but wow it was frothy beer.. Now i use between 50 n 80g of sugar/spreymalt to prime 5 gallons of beer, i used 80g in such things as fizzy ginger beer..

i found the worst way to add was teaspoon n funnel, spreymalt is too dry n clumps in a thin funnel..
rather than clean n sterilise another vessel and do the priming in bulk i measure out the dry sugar and add water and boil in the microwave (watching carefully as when it goes....).. when all disolved n sterile i cover with film n leave to cool a bit.. i then check the volunme of sweet liquid divide it by 40 and syringe that ammount into each bottle before pouring the rest into the keg. i aim for 400ml.. never been spot on tho..

my first 3 AG brews resulted me having a long list of 'Dont do that agains' my first effort was so bad i cringe, i tried BIAB brew with full ag grain quantities for a 5 gallon batch in a burco that holds exactly 5 gallons to the brim!! with the burco on the kitchen worktop getting the grain bag out was impossible.. and i ended up with a grain covered floor the kitchen was sticky for months, and then to top it off i added the whole vacum pack of hops misreading its weight and the weight in the recipe!! spent long time with a tstrainer trying to fish them back out... the beer however was delightful even if a tad over dry..

as i say ive found AG very forgiving..

my last AG brew went so well i didnt even drop a thermometer (usually i would drop and shatter at least one per brewday..)

 

[Bertie Doe]

no one wants burst bottles, your right, but i think you would need to really over do the primming.. some years ago i once added a heaped teaspoon per pint bottle before i had the DUH! moment and realised i had misread and should have been using 1/2 a teaspoon.. even those bottles didnt burst, but wow it was frothy beer.. Now i use between 50 n 80g of sugar/spreymalt to prime 5 gallons of beer, i used 80g in such things as fizzy ginger beer..

I decided to prime and bottle this morning. I primed with a syrup made from 50g of Muskavado (unrefined soft brown cane sugar). I used a Youngs Syphon, with a 300mm length of clear 10mm tubing attached to the tap.
Had a few tasters as I filled and capped. Seems a bitter underhopped and lacks any real depth of flavour - lets hope it improves as it matures.
Last time I tried to get 40 swing-cap bottles, the man said "they're too expensive and not much demand", so I settled for standard bottles and bought a hand capper. Takes a few minutes to get used to crown capping at first. I used a large rubber mallet and soon found there was a different flatter sounding'thwack'when the cap seated correctly. I'll keep them upstairs in the warm, for a couple of weeks and then banish them to the wood shed till Feb :drink:

 

[PhatFil]

Roll on February :) I think the bitterness will dissipate with maturity, but sounds like next time put less hops in the whole boil and more in the last 15 mins less dry n more arroma, or look up dry hopping?

hops is my current need to know subject, the hop rocket idea looks interesting but a bit above my current comfort level.

A percussion capper eh? that might be the biggest risk to your bottles, the big bottlers in here seem to swear by the desk mounted lever cappers?

Im storring my few bottles in an uninsulated garage, I will be keeping an eye on the weather forcasts and any thing below -4 C im pulling the crates inside.

I recycle bottles and cant imagine buying them if really stuck i would buy 10 -15 20p 2l bottles of tap water ph stabalised from tesco and use that for my brewing liquer and use the empty bottles for the beer.(in fact i did for my first brew this year) but the bottle bank is the place to get bottles hang arround sat or sun afternoon and within 20 mins you will probably intercept all the bottles you need ours gets so full there are boxes stacked up by the side so its even easier, just dress for the occasion expecting to spill wine on your legs n shoes... good for the environment, naw im just so tight i squeek when i walk.

I can give you the recipe i concocted for a pale ale that was ready to drink within 2 weeks of bieng kegged, i used flaked rice pudding (2 oz) with 2kg of pale malt and 2kg of extra pale malt and 200g of crystal malt for a 90 min mash and a 90 min boil 2 oz of goldings for the boil and 1/2 oz of fuggles for last 15 mins with 5 g of irish moss. (thays how i wrote it down both imperial n metric measurements sorry) I collected 7 gallons from the mash and boiled that down to 5 gallons.. it was a good fresh beer, the rice i thought would add body in fact it does the opposite?? I bottled half a dozen bottles and tasted one last night, this beer is not one to keep but one to drink quickly. the beer in the bottle did taste a bit thin. nice but thinner than it had been when fresh. but fresh from the keg it was delightful and i drank 19l with the help of a few pals in less than 10 days. burp !

a week after i started that brew i brewed a similar beer with 4oz of rice and 100g of crystal, and had loads of fuggles and used them for the main boil and used goldings for the last 15 mins,, a much thinner, too pale a beer and very dry , not ready as early and took 6 weeks to get ready to drink, ok but not a beer i will try again. thats when i discovered the rice was doing the opposite to what i had thought. and im thinking fuggles are a hop to use sparringly in the main boil?.