Cask conditioned brew?

[DiBosco]

Has anyone done cask conditioned beer at home? I ask because I have a hand pump and occasionally get a [commercial] barrel in for birthdays, barbie etc. I'd really like to have a go at doing a cask, but am not sure whether any of the barrels you could get would be suitable.

I am guessing it might be possible just to put the beer in the barrel at the same time you would normally bottle it, put the screw on, but not pressurise it with gas. Then when it comes to serving the beer, open the cap - at least enough to allow some air in - attach the hose to the tap and away you go.

Maybe a barrel like this:

http://www.traffordhomebrew.co.uk/basic-barrel-754-p.asp

Anyone tried this? Is there a fatal flaw in my plan? Or anyone have a better sort of barrel for this sort of thing?

Thanks!

 

[stesmi]

Yes, lots of people do it for lower carbed beers. Prime with 85 to 100 grams of brewing sugar at room temp, wait a week then Cold crash for a week and there you go. They only hold 10psi (ish), so aren't really suitable for lagers etc... And they're a pain in the ass to get in the fridge and if you need to move them then your beer gets cloudy again.

Here's an extract from How to Brew:

"Can I put Beer in a keg / pressure barrel?

While barrels are great for ales and still ciders, they are not recommended for lager or sparkling ciders. The reason for this is that lagers and ciders require a much higher level of carbonation than ales. A pressure barrel is unable to withstand the pressure of the high level of carbonation required, so the excess is vented from a safety valve, the result of which is that lagers and ciders taste flat. Use bottles for lager and sparkling cider, instead."

Also serving pressure's a bitch at first, coz the pressure's too high. And three quarters of the way through the barrel there's no serving pressure, so you need to inject co2, or loosen the cap. :-\

A Cornelius keg is another option. They're smaller, hold more pressure and you can control the pressure with a regulator. Pricey though...

 

[clibit]

I've never done cask, but some people attach a polypin to a hand pump...


http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26999

 

[DiBosco]

Stesmi, I should clarify that I'm talking about real ale here, not lager. I want to reproduce what we get in a pub. I'm guessing you're in the States due to you using ass and not ****, but over here when we sell ale, it is pulled with a hand pump, not carbon dioxide. The issue is I don't want CO2 in the beer! :-D (Other than what the yeast produces in the secondary fermentation). I am guessing that makes it *easier* with what I want to do if cheaper barrels can't take the pressure?

I should also say I have a cellar, so I have perfect conditions for storing real ale. What I am completely unclear on is:

a. Whether one of those pressurised barrels would do to store the beer if I *don't* inject any carbon dioxide in.

b. Do I just put the beer in the barrel, with sugar, at the same time that I'd bottle the beer?

c. Can I then just unscrew the cap when I serve it with my hand pump? When I have a commercial barrel I puncture the plastic entry point in the top and put a soft peg in that allows some air in, but keeps foreign bodies from getting in. I suppose I could get an extra top without a CO2 dispenser, drill a hole large enough to take a peg and replace the cap without a hole if there's any left at the end of the day.

(Yes, I know real ale only keeps a few days once opened. :) )

Thanks :)

 

[clibit]

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11340

 

[stesmi]

Stesmi, I should clarify that I'm talking about real ale here, not lager. I want to reproduce what we get in a pub. I'm guessing you're in the States due to you using ass and not ****, but over here when we sell ale, it is pulled with a hand pump, not carbon dioxide. The issue is I don't want CO2 in the beer! :-D (Other than what the yeast produces in the secondary fermentation). I am guessing that makes it *easier* with what I want to do if cheaper barrels can't take the pressure?

I should also say I have a cellar, so I have perfect conditions for storing real ale. What I am completely unclear on is:

a. Whether one of those pressurised barrels would do to store the beer if I *don't* inject any carbon dioxide in.

b. Do I just put the beer in the barrel, with sugar, at the same as I'd bottle the beer?

c. Can I then just unscrew the cap when I serve it with my hand pump? When I have a commercial barrel I puncture the plastic entry point in the top and put a soft peg in that allows some air in, but keeps foreign bodies from getting in. I suppose I could get an extra top without a CO2 dispenser, drill a hole large enough to take a peg and replace the cap without a hole if there's any left at the end of the day.

(Yes, I know real ale only keeps a few days once opened. :) )

Thanks :)

Ha! No I'm here. I know what we drink too :-) that's ok though, made me laugh :-)

What you ask is perfectly possible. I'd put the beer in your barrel without priming with sugar, as long as it's sealed it should be ok. A little fermentation will happen with residual sugars still in solution. You could add a little sugar if you're worried about the beer going off? This will increase the co2 level, but it won't show as bubbles in your brew.
Then tap your barrel as you would your keg - sorted. Get that beer engine out

 

[DiBosco]

OK, fab, thanks! Sorry for thinking you're American!

 

[Sandimas]

If you use a barrel like the one in the link (or Wilko one, which is the same) and prime for secondary fementation, you will get the equivalent of cask-conditioned ale straight from the barrel, with minimal fizz - the CO2 will be just enough to move the beer, not carbonate it.

Not sure what the hand pump would add, other than you've got it and want to use it: there'd be a fair bit of beer standing in the pipe in between sessions, which will go off and need drawing off, so you'll waste quite a bit by adding the handpump. Just walk down to the cellar and take it straight from the barrel. :razz:

 

[DiBosco]

Cheers, Darrell. :)

The hand pump allows me to force the beer through a sparkler and give me a lovely creamy head that clings to the glass, Yorks/Lancs stylee. Yum!

 

[DiBosco]

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11340

Thanks for that, reading through it has brought up other things to be aware of by the looks of it. Such as keeping it in the warm for a couple of days after putting it in the barrel before taking it to the cellar.

I found one other article where someone was saying they put it in a screw top barrel then go and release the pressure every now and again. I guess you have to be careful not to let air in when you release the carbon dioxide.

A cool thing would be to have a barrel with a pressure gauge that automatically opened when the pressure got too much it released a little of that pressure through one way valve. I guess though, this is why commercial beer comes in those metal casks as they will easily take the pressure of a living beer.

 

[stesmi]

Thanks for that, reading through it has brought up other things to be aware of by the looks of it. Such as keeping it in the warm for a couple of days after putting it in the barrel before taking it to the cellar.

I found one other article where someone was saying they put it in a screw top barrel then go and release the pressure every now and again. I guess you have to be careful not to let air in when you release the carbon dioxide.

A cool thing would be to have a barrel with a pressure gauge that automatically opened when the pressure got too much it released a little of that pressure through one way valve. I guess though, this is why commercial beer comes in those metal casks as they will easily take the pressure of a living beer.

The barrel does have a pressure release valve. It vents at 10psi.

 

[Sandimas]

I put a gauge on my other barrel, you can see here how it gasses up day-to-day and starts to tail off. And as has been said, they all have a release valve that goes off around 9 / 10 PSI. You'll have enough pressure in there to give you a nice creamy head without needing a sparkler.

 

[airymary]

Hi
I used pressure barrels (PBs) to serve through a handpump for a considerable time. This pic of the bar illustrates:

Priming sugar would be added to the barrels, then the beer was left to settle and clear. Secondary fermentation would produce enough pressure to serve a well conditioned pint initially, but that only lasts for half the PB. You can see in the pic that the top PB is in use. The pipe coming from the lid connects to a CO2 cylinder.

Pubs serve cask 'real' ale without adding any CO2 (CAMRA requires this). Air is allowed into the cask through a soft spile. This will cause oxidisation, which will sour the beer before too long. A pub cask will be sold over 2 or 3 days, so oxidisation is not a problem. If you've tried a cask ale in a pub that's sold slowly, you'll know what I mean.

Homebrewers generally want their beer to last longer than 2 or 3 days. Usual practise is to add a low 'blanket' of CO2, around 2 to 4 psi. This minimises forcing CO2 into the beer, but keeps air out of the barrel. It can last for weeks (or more) like this, and stay in very good condition.

Not adding CO2 will leave the last of the barrel oxidised and flat. So no Yorkshire head to it, sparkler or not. Here in London, if I want froth, I buy a cappuccino!

Cheers,
Chris

 

[stesmi]

Fantastic lads.

 

[airymary]

You could find that a standard sparklets or S30 valve will pressurise your kegs enough to use with the handpump. I never tried, so can't speak from experience (pub size CO2 is readily available here).

Cheers,
Chris

 

[DiBosco]

Hi
I used pressure barrels (PBs) to serve through a handpump for a considerable time. This pic of the bar illustrates:

Priming sugar would be added to the barrels, then the beer was left to settle and clear. Secondary fermentation would produce enough pressure to serve a well conditioned pint initially, but that only lasts for half the PB. You can see in the pic that the top PB is in use. The pipe coming from the lid connects to a CO2 cylinder.

Pubs serve cask 'real' ale without adding any CO2 (CAMRA requires this). Air is allowed into the cask through a soft spile. This will cause oxidisation, which will sour the beer before too long. A pub cask will be sold over 2 or 3 days, so oxidisation is not a problem. If you've tried a cask ale in a pub that's sold slowly, you'll know what I mean.

Homebrewers generally want their beer to last longer than 2 or 3 days. Usual practise is to add a low 'blanket' of CO2, around 2 to 4 psi. This minimises forcing CO2 into the beer, but keeps air out of the barrel. It can last for weeks (or more) like this, and stay in very good condition.

Not adding CO2 will leave the last of the barrel oxidised and flat. So no Yorkshire head to it, sparkler or not. Here in London, if I want froth, I buy a cappuccino!

Cheers,
Chris

That looks like just the job! I am more interested in an occasional barrel for a party or barbie. Whenever I've done a commercial barrel I've put it in the cellar and we've finished it over a few days; it keeps very well for four to five days and then starts to get tired.

I'm not sure I'd want hand-pulled ale always on tap at home, I'd fast become an alcoholic

I've seen some cute little 10litre barrels which also look very useful. I reckon you could do a brew, fill two or three of them and then even at a weekend have a few friends round and polish off a barrel in the evening.

Chris, what do you do when pulling the beer with the hand pump in terms of the screw tops? Do you just unscrew them and leave them perched on top or do you have any kind of soft peg system? I can't quite see from the pictures.

I'm not getting into a holy war over sparklers! :p

 

[airymary]

Chris, what do you do when pulling the beer with the hand pump in terms of the screw tops? Do you just unscrew them and leave them perched on top or do you have any kind of soft peg system? I can't quite see from the pictures.

I'm not getting into a holy war over sparklers! :p

Hi Dibosco

Yeh, that'd be an unholy war!:).

I posted that "You can see in the pic that the top PB is in use. The pipe coming from the lid connects to a CO2 cylinder." That top pipe attaches to an S30 valve that's fixed to the cap. It leads to a CO2 cylinder (via a regulator), which allowed me to maintain a constant 3 to 4 psi 'blanket' pressure in the barrel. The barrel would be emptied over 10 to 14 days, so allowing air into it would make the beer undrinkable long before it had finished.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[DiBosco]

For what it's worth, and I know it's an old thread, there's how the cask conditioned beer turned out. i.e. Bloody marvellous! :party:This was pulled through my hand pump, yes with a sparkler, and it tasted exactly like a beer you'd find in a pub. Reminded me a bit of Pendle Witches' Brew. Yum!

Thanks for the advice! :)

 

[clibit]

Splendid looking pint with nice cask style head! Cheers!

 

[Tony1951]

Impressed here with that hand pump / cask system in the photographs. Most of my beer goes in Young's type P Barrels and I stopped using the CO2 injector and rely on the secondary fermentation to keep it under a blanket and provide serving pressure. 85g of table sugar gets a bit more than half the barrel served nicely if far too frothy - but hey - its easy enough to fill two glasses and then top. When pressure drops, I re-prime with sugar solution and off we go again.

I might explore that beer engine thingy in the picture.