Carbonation issues - Northern Ireland

[BrewBilly]

Hi Folks

I bottled my Ausie Lager about 6 weeks ago using the PET bottles I got with my coopers kit, first week the bottles were stored at 22C then out in the shed - its been pretty chilly outside.

The thing is that the first couple of bottles tasted good, but a bit flat, I then had a couple of cracking pints where carbonation was good, I have now opened another bottle and its a bit flat. There are bubbles in the brew if you swill it around the glass, so I am a bit confused. I used the carbonation drops from the coopers kits and my brew seems a bit hit and miss.

Any suggestions to avoid this in future???

Regards
BrewBilly

 

[jonnymorris]

Batch priming will give you more consistent results though, to be honest, there's no reason why you should get such variation with carbonation drops. Two weeks in the warm may help.

Also, if your beer has frozen in the shed you may be asking for trouble.

 

[PD]

yes the bottles need longer than a week in the warmth, nearer 2 or 3 weeks, then moving to somewhere cool ( not cold ) for a week to settle then they can go into storage area. Bottle priming or batch priming the choice is yours however use ordinary granulated household sugar at around 3-4 gms per litre. Its cheaper than Coopers drops.

 

[BrewBilly]

Thanks guys

The only reason why I used the drops is that they were included in the original kit.

We did have a pretty cold spell so not to sure if they froze or not, I think I will put them in the garage next time.

Is it worth moving my remaining bottles back into the warmth for a bit to kick start conditioning? I thought the beer did taste slightly sweet???

Any further thoughts?

 

[PD]

yes move the bottles back into warmth and give them another 2 weeks...hey ho start another brew....

 

[BrewBilly]

I've moved the rest of the bottles back indoors, lets hold thumbs.

I bought a demijohn yesterday so got a hard cider brew on and bought a Coopers Irish Stout, looking forward to my next brew day.

Thanks for the advice

 

[BrewBilly]

Im pleased to report that moving the conditioning beer back into the warm linen cupboard has work wonders. My beer is now nice and carbonated and holds a really good head. very pleased...

Thanks everyone, my first brew has turned out well and encouraged me to brew on.

Cheers
BrewBilly

 

[GeeK]

Looking out the window this morning - here in County Down, I'll bet your beer is pleased to be indoors, too!

 

[BrewBilly]

Thanks GeeK

Im just glad I dont have to go out to the shed.

Perfect day for a brewday

 

[Markus]

Just wanted to point out that a glass that is wet or contains traces of cleaner can kill a beer stone dead regardless of carbonation. Ive taken to rinsing my glasses and leaving to dry well before pouring the first pint.

 

[conorm]

Good thing with using PET bottles is you can give them a squeeze during the priming period... when nice and hard (like a carbonated drink should be!) you know it's done and you can transfer to cold storage to condition. I always include a couple PET bottles along with glass ones so I know how the priming is going.

Also, definately batch prime, gpour the sugar solution in gently, give a GENTLE stir (avoid stirring down near the bottom) and allow to dissovle fully for at least 30mins. Because of the difference in density, you need to make sure the liquids fully mix.

 

[rpt]

Also, definately batch prime, gpour the sugar solution in gently, give a GENTLE stir (avoid stirring down near the bottom) and allow to dissovle fully for at least 30mins. Because of the difference in density, you need to make sure the liquids fully mix.

I put the sugar solution into my bottling bucket first and then syphon the beer on top of it. This mixes it up nicely.

 

[Markus]

I don't trust batch priming in this way. If possible I try to bottle prime with good old spoon and funnel. It doesn't take me much longer and I can control quantities in each bottle.

I noticed when batch priming that some of the solution would be left sticking to the bottom of the bottling bucket. Also noticed that the last few bottles I drank from a batch primed brew had way too much carbonation which makes sense as they would have been the last bottles to be filled from the bucket, and the solution was gathering at the bottom as it's heavier.

I want to avoid having to stir too much or worry about mixing so bottle works for me. Also means I can bottle right from the FV :thumb:

 

[ScottM]

I noticed when batch priming that some of the solution would be left sticking to the bottom of the bottling bucket. Also noticed that the last few bottles I drank from a batch primed brew had way too much carbonation which makes sense as they would have been the last bottles to be filled from the bucket, and the solution was gathering at the bottom as it's heavier.

I wouldn't base your dis-trust on the method, it's the execution of the method that was at fault.

When batch priming the sugar should already be dissolved before the beer/cider/other get's anywhere near the bottling bucket.

Batch priming is miles better than individually priming each bottle for many reasons. There is no downfall to batch priming, other than you have to clean the FV once you are finished. Time and accuracy are all far better.

This relies on competence and understanding in using the technique though.

 

[rpt]

I boil the sugar in some water (usually 100g in 200mL) for about 15 minutes and allow it to cool. Ensures the sugar is nicely dissolved.

 

[ScottM]

I boil the sugar in some water (usually 100g in 200mL) for about 15 minutes and allow it to cool. Ensures the sugar is nicely dissolved.

I don't go anywhere near that far but no harm in doing it.

I just add my sugar to a mug and pour in some boiling water from the kettle. Give it all a stir till dissolved (clear) and the jobs a goodun :)

 

[Markus]

I do disolve the sugar in boiling water but it is still heavier that the brew.

Scott, other than time saved, which is debatable and really depends on your overall brew method, what is the main advantage of batch priming?

 

[ScottM]

I do disolve the sugar in boiling water but it is still heavier that the brew.

Scott, other than time saved, which is debatable and really depends on your overall brew method, what is the main advantage of batch priming?

If you have dissolved the sugar, added it to the FV then syphoned the brew on top then I can't see how you would have any issues at all. I've certainly never had any using this method and I've done it repeatedly for the past year. Fully dissolved sugar would not be visible on the edge of a bucket, it would look like water. If your syrup is visible it either isn't dissolved properly or you aren't using enough boiling water.

I don't see how the time saved is debatable. I can batch prime in minutes whereas it takes me ages to individually prime each bottle with a properly measured spoon.

So, certainly IMO, the advantages are as follows.

Time - As described above
Accuracy - The sugar can be measured out very easily when it's in bulk. Measuring spoons levelled properly and carefully would be required to even come close (see "mess")
Convenience - A multitude of different bottle/container sizes can be used/filled with no additional calculations or individual measuring required. It's also effortless, it's so easy to measure in bulk, stir in some water, dump in an FV then syphon on top that you can do it in your sleep. The concentration required to accurately measure 40+tsp is soul destroying.
Mess - There simply is none. With individual priming a funnel is required if you don't want sugar everywhere. Using a funnel lowers the accuracy as sugar will always cling during certain fills and drop during others, minimal.. yes... but it's there.


Disadvantages:

Extra equipment - You are using another FV so it's something else to clean. However, the time I take to batch prime and then clean an FV is far less than it takes me to individually prime 40+ bottles accurately. Also batch priming requires scales, a mug and a tsp. Individual priming, however, requires measuring spoons, an edge for flattening (knife) and a funnel. A bit of swings and roundabouts really for the disadvantage.

 

[Markus]

Not being confrontational. If there are drawbacks to bottle priming I want to know about them believe me. None of the advantages or disadvantages really ring true for my current method tho.

I've seen it argued that batch is more reliable but what could be more reliable than measuring out each individual bottle? As for time it takes me less than 10 minutes to bottle prime 40 bottles and I only use either 500 ml or 1 litre bottles so no issues with calculating amounts.

 

[ScottM]

Not being confrontational. If there are drawbacks to bottle priming I want to know about them believe me. None of the advantages or disadvantages really ring true for my current method tho.

I've seen it argued that batch is more reliable but what could be more reliable than measuring out each individual bottle? As for time it takes me less than 10 minutes to bottle prime 40 bottles and I only use either 500 ml or 1 litre bottles so no issues with calculating amounts.

Oh sorry, I know you aren't... me either. Just discussing :)

It's always going to be different for each individual. The first few brews I made I individually primed the bottles and I honestly dreaded it. Now that I batch prime and use an autosyphon with an auto filler bottling day is an absolute doddle.

The accuracy is definitely down to the individual. Individually priming can be close enough in accuracy to batch priming that makes no difference. In order to achieve this accuracy measuring spoons and an adequate technique for using them will be required (blunt end of a knife works well for me).

The time thing really annoyed me. I didn't prime all the bottles at the same time, I would take one off the bottle tree, prime it, rack into it, cap it, shake it and then move onto the next. My reason for operating this way was to minimise my risk of infection. Putting a funnel into a bottle, measuring a spoon of sugar accurately before putting it into the bottle then moving onto the next took time.

Compared to the method I use now I estimate that I get from secondary to room temp conditioning in around 1/5th of the time. Previously it took me hours to get everything ready. The individual priming isn't to blame for this though, the bottle rinser, bottle tree, bottling wand and batch priming all play their part in getting me to where I am.

I definitely stand by batch priming though. When used properly the method and logic is absolutely sound. I have used both methods to the best of my ability and I feel less stressed and under far less pressure batch priming. The time advantage is a bonus for me but enjoying the process is far more beneficial to me than the time.

If it works for you, keep doing it. And that goes for whatever method you use :)