carbonation help for Mexican beer

[hansybebes]

Fantastic.......thanks :thumb:

 

[ScottM]

The video I followed said to put the sugar in first (I went for 3/4 spoon of sugar in a 500ml bottle) then give it a shake.

Something I realised when bottling btw was that you need to leave as little air gap as possible (inch or so)

I'm sure most people who have done this time and time again take that for granted but I'd never bottled beer before, only kegged or wine.

If you're using glass bottles be sure to leave at least an inch. The headspace is what makes room for the CO2 that gets produced. If there is barely any headspace then there will be very little compression allowance, thus the pressure inside the bottle will rise much quicker than it would if there was an adequate amount.

A couple of things will happen when this is the case:

1. The yeast will stop working when the pressure tolerance is reached, thus you may end up with an underprimed yet slightly over sweet beer.
2. If the bottle has any weak points at all they will most likely let go and the bottle will explode. High pressure = much more likely.
3. If the bottle doesn't explode, you may open it and think you have under primed your beer... thus making the mistake the next time of over priming it. In actual fact the reason there isn't much CO2 is that the yeast gave up well before it was finished with the sugar.


It's a jungle out there

 

[Stu]

Problem is, leave much more than an inch and you give gasses room to pressurise, causing higher pressure and potentially the explosion of the bottle will be far more dangerous.

I left an inch :lol:

OP: In case you were wondering, there's a thread about bottle bombs which is well worth a read.

Can be found here

viewtopic.php?t=26469

 

[ScottM]

Problem is, leave much more than an inch and you give gasses room to pressurise, causing higher pressure and potentially the explosion of the bottle will be far more dangerous.

I left an inch :lol:

Doesn't work like that. More headspace = less pressure

 

[Stu]

Problem is, leave much more than an inch and you give gasses room to pressurise, causing higher pressure and potentially the explosion of the bottle will be far more dangerous.

I left an inch :lol:

Doesn't work like that. More headspace = less pressure

Allegedly not

viewtopic.php?p=269597#p269597

Can't say I really want to find out.

 

[ScottM]

Problem is, leave much more than an inch and you give gasses room to pressurise, causing higher pressure and potentially the explosion of the bottle will be far more dangerous.

I left an inch :lol:

Doesn't work like that. More headspace = less pressure

Allegedly not

viewtopic.php?p=269597#p269597

Can't say I really want to find out.

That's true, as there is more gas. That's not more pressure though.

The more headspace, the more space for more gas.

It's all about getting things correct.

Too little headspace = Pressure increases quicker, less CO2 gas produced due to yeast dying off quicker, when opened the pressure is released but due to the lack of gas there is little CO2 left in the beer.

Correct headspace = Pressure increases slowly, potential CO2 gas is produced due to the yeast being able to finish off all the sugar, when opened the excess pressure is vented but due to the headspace/pressure/Co2 levels being correct the CO2 has been absorbed and the beer will have some sparkle.

Too much headspace = Pressure increases very slowly, potential CO2 gas is produced but it isn't absorbed into the beer as much because the pressure inside the bottle is so low. When the bottle is opened the excess gas will escape, including most of the produced CO2, leaving you with a relatively flat beer. This is an extreme scenario though, the headspace would need to be way too much.


With regards to the bottle exploding due to excess pressure, the worst case scenario would be a combination of over priming and too much headspace. With it being overprimed the pressure will be high and with there being lots of headspace the volume of the gas will also be high. If the bottle has a weakness and pops then the gas expansion will create a lot of energy in the glass.

It's a chain of events though, you would need to be unlucky enough to have a weak bottle AND prime to levels that the weakened bottle can't handle. Good condition bottles are fine for 80psi+. Yeast can only really generate 30-40PSI before dying off so in normal circumstances the gas should ONLY come out of the lid when you open (relatively safe).

If you generate upwards of 40psi in a bottle with a lot of headspace and it lets go..... it's not going to be pretty at all.

 

[bottler]

I used one teaspoon in the 500ml plastic pet bottles my cerveza is in. Just moved from the warm cupboard tonight to cool for 2 weeks and the bottles were nice and firm. I had about 1 1/2 inch gap between beer and cap, as i always do, with no problems at all.

 

[ScottM]

I used one teaspoon in the 500ml plastic pet bottles my cerveza is in. Just moved from the warm cupboard tonight to cool for 2 weeks and the bottles were nice and firm. I had about 1 1/2 inch gap between beer and cap, as i always do, with no problems at all.

You should generally be safe with PET bottles, it takes a fair amount to damage them but even when they are they will expand and flop to a pop rather than explode

 

[bottler]

I use the same method with glass bottles and have had no bother. I prefer glass bottles, for no real reason, except it seems right, especially when giving the odd bottle or two for friends to sample. Ive gathered up loads of brown glass bottles but have 80 or so plastic that i still use as i bought them when starting up and also do the job.

 

[ScottM]

I use the same method with glass bottles and have had no bother. I prefer glass bottles, for no real reason, except it seems right, especially when giving the odd bottle or two for friends to sample. Ive gathered up loads of brown glass bottles but have 80 or so plastic that i still use as i bought them when starting up and also do the job.

Yeah I'm the same. I recently bought some plastic ones simply for monitoring each batch to be sure that carbonation has happened. I've never had an issue with bottle bombs etc, and I prime to the max, but it will no doubt eventually happen. Re-using the same bottles over and over will eventually lead to a failure of some sort :)

 

[Hainsey]

Doesn't work like that. More headspace = less pressure

Allegedly not

viewtopic.php?p=269597#p269597

Can't say I really want to find out.

That's true, as there is more gas. That's not more pressure though.

The more headspace, the more space for more gas.

It's all about getting things correct.

Too little headspace = Pressure increases quicker, less CO2 gas produced due to yeast dying off quicker, when opened the pressure is released but due to the lack of gas there is little CO2 left in the beer.

Correct headspace = Pressure increases slowly, potential CO2 gas is produced due to the yeast being able to finish off all the sugar, when opened the excess pressure is vented but due to the headspace/pressure/Co2 levels being correct the CO2 has been absorbed and the beer will have some sparkle.

Too much headspace = Pressure increases very slowly, potential CO2 gas is produced but it isn't absorbed into the beer as much because the pressure inside the bottle is so low. When the bottle is opened the excess gas will escape, including most of the produced CO2, leaving you with a relatively flat beer. This is an extreme scenario though, the headspace would need to be way too much.


With regards to the bottle exploding due to excess pressure, the worst case scenario would be a combination of over priming and too much headspace. With it being overprimed the pressure will be high and with there being lots of headspace the volume of the gas will also be high. If the bottle has a weakness and pops then the gas expansion will create a lot of energy in the glass.

It's a chain of events though, you would need to be unlucky enough to have a weak bottle AND prime to levels that the weakened bottle can't handle. Good condition bottles are fine for 80psi+. Yeast can only really generate 30-40PSI before dying off so in normal circumstances the gas should ONLY come out of the lid when you open (relatively safe).

If you generate upwards of 40psi in a bottle with a lot of headspace and it lets go..... it's not going to be pretty at all.

I can vouch that leaving too much headspace produces flat beer. Used pet bottles as well. All glass from now on.

 

[GaryG]

Nothing better than popping the crown off to that fizz :)

 

[Kentish Man]

double post . sorry

You can take the man out of Kent, but you cant take Kent out of the Man

-----------------------------------

FV 1 Wilko Golden Ale ( Hop Tea added 5 days into fermentation)
Fv 2 Woodfordes Wherry
FV 3 Wilko Real Ale ( brewed short) Dry hopped 25grm Kent Goldings 5 days into Fermentation
Conditioning : Woodfordes Wherry , Bottled and Keged.
Currently Drinking : Ceylon Tea

 

[Kentish Man]

Oh, I know you probably aren't but, you don't need to prime a barrel with as much as 160g (unless it's a corny of course).[/quote]


Just out of interest Scott how much priming sugar would you put in a corny keg.

I will be siphoning to my new accusation this weekend, I was gonna do the same as for the plastic pressure barrel about 100 grams.

I was also considering a light DME instead of sugar. :wha:

Just over a month into my new hobby I am hooked, this forum has proved invaluable. :

Keep posting guys.

You can take the man out of Kent, but you cant take Kent out of the Man

-----------------------------------

FV 1 Wilko Golden Ale ( Hop Tea added 5 days into fermentation)
Fv 2 Woodfordes Wherry
FV 3 Wilko Real Ale ( brewed short) Dry hopped 25grm Kent Goldings 5 days into Fermentation
Conditioning : Woodfordes Wherry , Bottled and Keged.
Currently Drinking : Ceylon Tea

 

[ScottM]

Oh, I know you probably aren't but, you don't need to prime a barrel with as much as 160g (unless it's a corny of course).

Just out of interest Scott how much priming sugar would you put in a corny keg.

I will be siphoning to my new accusation this weekend, I was gonna do the same as for the plastic pressure barrel about 100 grams.

I was also considering a light DME instead of sugar. :wha:

Just over a month into my new hobby I am hooked, this forum has proved invaluable. :

Keep posting guys.

You can take the man out of Kent, but you cant take Kent out of the Man

-----------------------------------

FV 1 Wilko Golden Ale ( Hop Tea added 5 days into fermentation)
Fv 2 Woodfordes Wherry
FV 3 Wilko Real Ale ( brewed short) Dry hopped 25grm Kent Goldings 5 days into Fermentation
Conditioning : Woodfordes Wherry , Bottled and Keged.
Currently Drinking : Ceylon Tea

There isn't really a limit for the corny so you can add as much as you want, for how fizzy you want the beer. If you are happy with the fizz produced from 100g in a keg then 100g in the corny is fine. If you want a fizzy lager the. 160g+ will be required.

Wouldnt recommend dme. There is no benefit and only 80 percent of the weight you are adding is fermentable. Always use plain sugar for priming.

 

[hansybebes]

Is it best to use granulated or caster sugar for priming. I'm just putting it straight into the bottle

 

[ScottM]

Is it best to use granulated or caster sugar for priming. I'm just putting it straight into the bottle

Granulated.

 

[Kentish Man]

Thanks, :thumb:

I will stick with the cheap Tate and Lyle and up the quantity a little (I really just love to tinker). :

I am keeping detailed notes so once I find a style I like I can replicate it. :geek:

You can take the man out of Kent, but you cant take Kent out of the Man

-----------------------------------

FV 1 Wilko Mexican style Cerveza (tinkered with)
Fv 2 Woodfordes Wherry
FV 3 Wilko Real Ale ( brewed short) Dry hopped 25grm Kent Goldings 5 days into Fermentation
Conditioning : Wilko Golden Ale ( Hop Tea added 5 days into fermentation)
Currently Drinking : Ceylon Tea ( as the 36 pints of Wherry went in less than a week)

 

[hansybebes]

Thanks :