Caramel Cream Ale Recipe Help Please

[Manxnorton]

Hello All,
I am toying with a Caramel Cream Ale and the only recipe I got so far is from the USA and only about 20L once I fannied on with conversion.
Please can you look at my recipe and guide me towards 23L?
I am also looking for Honey Malt or a damn near alternative as I cant fins it on Rob's site.
here goes with the recipe for 20L estimated.
As I love my ale Caramel, Toffee Choc and very Sweet any ideas would be most welcome.
UK Thomas Golden Promise 4.5KG
Crystal Malt (65SRM) 0.68KG
Dark Crystal Malt (85SRM) 0.45KG
HONEY MALT 0.45KG
East Kent Goldings 4 x 28.35g @ 15,10,5 & 0 MINS
Fuggles 14.17g @ 5 mins
Wyeast 1318

Any Help apreciated :pray:
ATB
Bri

 

[Ceejay]

Are you using any sort of Brewing Software? If not, I'd recommend getting into it, as it makes things like this very easy. Some even allow you to convert your recipe to different brewlengths without any fannying about.

I use Brewers Friend, which has a handy "scale" tool:

 

[graysalchemy]

I think that will be rather cloyingly sweet with that amount of crystal malts crystal accounts for nearly 20% and I take it honey will be similar to crystal in a away.

Not for me pal far too much crystal but if you are after cloyingly sweet beer then go for it, it might be what you are looking for. :thumb:

 

[Manxnorton]

Are you using any sort of Brewing Software? If not, I'd recommend getting into it, as it makes things like this very easy. Some even allow you to convert your recipe to different brewlengths without any fannying about.

I use Brewers Friend, which has a handy "scale" tool:

Thanks for the rapid reply m8.
Ive Brewsmith 2 that ive binned using... :wha:
Brewmate I use so gonna look at brewers friend.
much appreciated
ATB
Bri

 

[Manxnorton]

I think that will be rather cloyingly sweet with that amount of crystal malts crystal accounts for nearly 20% and I take it honey will be similar to crystal in a away.

Not for me pal far too much crystal but if you are after cloyingly sweet beer then go for it, it might be what you are looking for. :thumb:

Thx for the quick reply pal.
HMMMMMMM!!!! see what you mean about the crystal, I might leave out the Honey Malt as I cant get it at Robs and cant be arsed to hunt out an alternative. :lol:
Yeah looking like once I get the ingredient ammounts sorted i'll go for it..and see what comes out :thumb:
Cheers m8
ATB
Bri

 

[Ceejay]

Sweet. Just make sure you set "Brewlength" to "In the kettle". Otherwise, it screws up the boil gravity.

With your recipe, I'd second what grays said. That might end up really cloyingly sweet. Good if you like it that way I guess though. I'd read up on the Honey Malt though. I've never used it, but I've read that it is really strong in flavour, so should be used sparingly.

 

[graysalchemy]

Usually you wouldn't use more than 10% crystal malt having said that Sarah Hughes Mild has 15% and is not cloying I believe. 20% might be what you are looking for but there again it might not.

 

[Manxnorton]

Thanks so much guys.
Just had a play with Brewers friend and very happy with it once I set it up.
Still Confused with what amount to use, as you all seem to be on the SWEET opinion :wha:
I'm taking on board everything but gonna leave out the Honey Malt.
As yous said theres a lot of Sweetness going on.
We shall see Monday or Tuesday by the time I get my goodies from Rob.
Just managed to save my recipe target to kettle :grin:
going to have another play and see what I come up with.
really appreciate all your help guys.
ATB
Bri

 

[graysalchemy]

Lactose may be worth considering or maltodextrin. Never used them but they are used in sweet stouts and milk stouts. :thumb:

 

[Manxnorton]

Lactose may be worth considering or maltodextrin. Never used them but they are used in sweet stouts and milk stouts. :thumb:

I've got some Lactose left over from my Milk Choc Stout, so might just be playing with that on the 15Min mark.
Thanks pal top suggestion m8.
ATB
Bri

 

[fisherman]

I have just finished off a brew of sweet mild type beer. A little to sweet for me. If I wanted sweet beer I would look to change my mineral additions for calcium and add more Calcium chloride to add sweet malty flavours rather than Gypsum which adds sulphate for more sharp hoppy styles of beer. Have a look at the brewers friend website regarding basic water treatment. I am sure water treatment will give you better results than adding large amounts of roasted malt. What is your alkalinity and water type ?. Work out how much calcium you need and dose as needed.

 

[pittsy]

If you want sweet but not cloying , use around 10% crystal and use less hops than recipe suggests and finally mash a little higher 68/70c . This will give you more body and more unfermentables and less bittering hops will increase the sweetness without over doing it .

 

[Manxnorton]

I have just finished off a brew of sweet mild type beer. A little to sweet for me. If I wanted sweet beer I would look to change my mineral additions for calcium and add more Calcium chloride to add sweet malty flavours rather than Gypsum which adds sulphate for more sharp hoppy styles of beer. Have a look at the brewers friend website regarding basic water treatment. I am sure water treatment will give you better results than adding large amounts of roasted malt. What is your alkalinity and water type ?. Work out how much calcium you need and dose as needed.

Cheers Buddy,
That's top info there m8.
yeah got brewers friend the other day and I'm impressed.
Gotta look at my water content, even though my next door neighbour works for the local water authority I might give them a ring
ATB
Bri

 

[Manxnorton]

If you want sweet but not cloying , use around 10% crystal and use less hops than recipe suggests and finally mash a little higher 68/70c . This will give you more body and more unfermentables and less bittering hops will increase the sweetness without over doing it .

hallow pittsy,
I've had my head battered and must of gone through every permutation for the sweetness.
Less Hops sounds good as theres east kent Goldings @ 15, 10, 5 & 0 & fuggles @ 5mins.
toying with Crystal 60 & 80 but keeping Golden Promise.
Got some Lactose so might give that a try.. :wha:
"Why not throw all your left overs in as well Brian"... lol
Kna Seriuosly I'm gonna have a real good look at this recipe again tomorrow and try and get it right.
ATB
Bri :

 

[fisherman]

If your chap next door works your water supplier ask him if he can get a water reading for the following residues,

Total hardness
Calcium
magnesium
sodium
sulphate
chloride
alkalinity as caco3

My water supply did this until last month now I just get averages. No good.
get the readings if you can and game over. Get yourself a Salifert alkalinity test kit from e-bay.

 

[Manxnorton]

If your chap next door works your water supplier ask him if he can get a water reading for the following residues,

Total hardness
Calcium
magnesium
sodium
sulphate
chloride
alkalinity as caco3

My water supply did this until last month now I just get averages. No good.
get the readings if you can and game over. Get yourself a Salifert alkalinity test kit from e-bay.

Thanks so much for your reply.
My m8 is off work terminally ill so I will contact them direct.
Going to look on evilbay as you said.
To be truthful to myself I've been stupid not doing as you said after 5 batches, 2 all grain.
I've run the gauntlet.
Thanks so much
ATB
Bri

 

[Manxnorton]

If your chap next door works your water supplier ask him if he can get a water reading for the following residues,

Total hardness
Calcium
magnesium
sodium
sulphate
chloride
alkalinity as caco3

My water supply did this until last month now I just get averages. No good.
get the readings if you can and game over. Get yourself a Salifert alkalinity test kit from e-bay.

M8,
Just looking on Evilbay and there's a few on there that is baffling me prices from £7.50 all the way to £30+ could you steer me in the right direction if you can spare
A few mins,so I get the right one and not waste £'s.
ATB
Bri

 

[fisherman]

I will look online tonight and post information on the Salifert alkalinity kit . Mine is about £7 to£8 including postage. I look for a good use by date as there are about 50 water test per kit.

 

[Manxnorton]

I will look online tonight and post information on the Salifert alkalinity kit . Mine is about £7 to£8 including postage. I look for a good use by date as there are about 50 water test per kit.

thanks very much m8 takin the time your a legend :thumb:
ATB
Bri

 

[fisherman]

I have been online to e-bay Salifert Alkalinity and hardness test kit £7. 50 inc postage from marine aquatics in Bristol. I have e-mailed them a request for the best before date which can take up to 2 days.I cannot see the point in buying a kit with a bad use by date. I test my tapwater before every brew and also after I have dosed with CRS to check the alkalinity has been reduced. If you have little water and mineral expertise I am quite willing to help with my limited knowledge. Once you have your alkalinity sorted that should help you sort out what type of beer suits your water profile.