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Can anyone even estimate the size of the Public Sector Pension Deficit?

This problem is an example of an "insoluble" one. Similar to "over population" and all the other problems that stem from this. Indeed, over population, with respect to available resources, is at the root of almost all the world's perceived problems.

My observations lead me to believe than Human Beings have only three levels of response to an insoluble problem:

1. Ignore it and hope it goes away
2. Look for someone else to blame
3. Make up an imaginary friend who says its OK

The above represents a level two response, which as valueless as the other options.
 
I agree entirely, the Public Pension Fund is in dire straits; and it is made worse by COMPANY Pension Fund deficits lie those at Capita and Carillion.

Both of the Pension Funds are COMPANY Pension Funds and the deficits of these COMPANY Pension Funds will throw an extra burden on the already overstretched PUBLIC Pension Fund.

The Management of these companies are stealing from ALL of us; not just the Company workers who expected to be paid a Company Pension on retirement.:gulp:
 
I never really did buy into the idea of outsourcing. It is usually done to hand off a problem to somewhere else.
All too often the "problem" is that the service being outsourced is just too expensive. There are sometimes other reasons, but just being too expensive is the most common.
In the parlance of the Risk Management profession, the outsourcer passes uncertainty of outcome (i.e. risk) to the outsourcing company and gains from a slight reduction in cost and a perceived reduction in risk.
Unfortunately both large companies and government bodies take the view that they should deal only with outsourcing providers of size and substance - thus putting a lot of pressure to reduce cost, and a lot of risk in a relatively small number of providers.

These large service providers are generally formed (my observation) by combining a number of smaller companies, This is achieved by the dominant one buying the others, always for a bit more than they are actually worth on their own.
This is "important" in the sense only of the way that the finances of the new, enlarged outsourcing company will appear. The surplus paid for the small companies is shown in the balance sheet of the large company as an asset called "goodwill" by accountants.
The new outsourcer is essentially taking on a large number of contracts that will offer, long term, fairly marginal returns, guaranteed by the tendering process by which the contracts are awarded. The outsourcer is also taking on the risk.

Accounting for long term contracts (outsourcing is typically ~ 5 years) has always been a headache for accountants (like me). The major tension is between the desire (of management and shareholders) to recognise profits early in the contract cycle and the need to wait until later to see whether the profits ever materialise in the cold light of day.
Sadly, the tendency is to imagine profits in the early years of contracts that never materialise.

When the time comes to "reckon up" in the outsourcers books there are two problems - writing off the fictitious profits booked too early in the contracting cycle, and much worse! The realisation that the asset called goodwill is actually destitute of any value and needs to be written off.
It is this "accounting" black-hole that makes the fall of the outsourcing companies seem so precipitous and dramatic.
But really, if your economic systems concentrate risk in a small number of intrinsically very large and very marginal economic entities, something is going to go very wrong, very certainly and fairly soon.
 
Between the deficits in the public and private pension funds I'm trading flavour for a cold nose and a shiny coat on my 3 favourite dog foods I'll be eating in my dotage.
 
Appaling company. As inept and inefficient as it gets. Even the people that work there know it as ‘Crapita’. I would never want to see anyone out of a job, but that company deserves all it gets.
 
Between the deficits in the public and private pension funds I'm trading flavour for a cold nose and a shiny coat on my 3 favourite dog foods I'll be eating in my dotage.
Appaling company. As inept and inefficient as it gets. Even the people that work there know it as ‘Crapita’. I would never want to see anyone out of a job, but that company deserves all it gets.

When you say "the company" do you refer to its shareholders, or its executives, its employees or to something that you feel it represents?

I am, BTW, quite interested in some response, here, and have no particular point to make, over and above my observations around the subject of outsourcing in general.
 
........

I am, BTW, quite interested in some response, here, and have no particular point to make, over and above my observations around the subject of outsourcing in general.

My response is a pat on the back for a succinct explanation of "Outsourcing" and its pitfalls. Well done!:thumb:In my working life I saw loads of situations where Managers (a misnomer in many cases) did things without carrying out any form of commercial risk assessment. The aftermath was often embarrassing and on a few occasions disastrous; especially for the workforce!:gulp:
 
I would be referring to its executives rather than anything else, given that they're the people who run the company.

I've had dealings with Capita and I know people who have been unfortunate enough to work for them. Their inefficiency has to be seen to be believed and like Carillion, they give the impression of a company that has simply grown too fast and is now totally out of control. They provided admin on my pension scheme a few years back and I just had problem after problem. Everything pointed to a lack of communication and simple incompetence. I moved the entire pension just to get away from them and it was one of the best moves I've ever made. Useless company.
 
............... They provided admin on my pension scheme a few years back and I just had problem after problem. ............

Aaaargh! That got me thinking!

I have a small pension from a US company that I worked for back in the 60's and 70's. About three years ago they switched companies for the administration of their UK Pension Payments and moved their business to Capita!

I will keep an eye on my Bank Account to see if the troubles at Capita has any effect on my monthly pension payment; and be thankful that they were NOT entrusted with the administration of the Pension Fund itself.

Thanks for the heads up.:thumb:I will now go and phone a few fellow pensioners to see if they have realised that there may be a problem. There's no point in worrying alone when you can have company.:gulp:
 
I don't trust any company that has fingers in too many pies. My idea of a business is that is tries to excel in what it was started up to do. stick to one thing and stop allowing businesses that do everything. It also doesn't help competition within markets as the big companies have the money to do what ever they want.
 

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