Can you guess what went wrong?

[Bzee]

amazes me how NEIPA got off the ground as a style, let alone they're market saturation, given it's self destructive nature. Considering how much money commercial and homebrewers alike, have thrown at trying to get them to work consistently. The power of Instagram, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
I went NEIPA made a few years ago but then something happened and went right off funky and citrus highly hopped beer. Have saved a fortune in hops

 

[Brew_DD2]

amazes me how NEIPA got off the ground as a style, let alone they're market saturation, given it's self destructive nature. Considering how much money commercial and homebrewers alike, have thrown at trying to get them to work consistently. The power of Instagram, I guess.

I went NEIPA made a few years ago but then something happened and went right off funky and citrus highly hopped beer. Have saved a fortune in hops
[/QUOTE]

Did you have COVID at any point? I used to always reach for Hazy IPAs, but every since Summer 2022 when I had COVID, I've just found myself enjoying them less. I found myself brewing very few of them in 2021, but that was more down being a bit bored of the style.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Use some ascorbic acid in mash

Will ascorbic acid survive the boil ? Something in the back if my mind is telling me that vitamin c (ascorbic acid) is destroyed by cooking (eg, boiling).

I add my ascorbic acid at the end of fermentation (rightly or wrongly)

 

[Sadfield]

Probably there to stop oxygen binding with something else, as early as possible, to reduce the potential for redox reactions down the line.

 

[Buffers brewery]

The malt used won't have a lot of impact. The easiest way to find out if it is a bacterial/yeast infection is to degas a sample let it stand for 24 hours and check the gravity. If the gravity has gone down it is infected, remaining the same it is oxidised.

Checked the gravity this morning and no change from yesterday so on that confirms oxidation. Just need to revisit my process to identify how I can make it more robust. It can’t be that wrong as I’ve made 6 successful brews in the past with the same kit and process.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Looks like the consensus is oxidation which is what I suspected just need to figure out how it happened

How do you purge your barrel?

 

[JockyBrewer]

One other suggestion - if you use PBW/Chemclean/Oxyclean type cleaners for your barrel, it needs to be rinsed really well with hot water to ensure there's no residue.

Any residue left can almost instantly oxidise a beer as these chemicals evolve pure oxygen as part of their cleaning action.

Best practice for a keg to receive a NEIPA is to clean, rinse well, then fill with starsan and push it out with either bottled or fermentation CO2. Then do a closed transfer.

 

[Agentgonzo]

One other suggestion - if you use PBW/Chemclean/Oxyclean type cleaners for your barrel, it needs to be rinsed really well with hot water to ensure there's no residue.

Any residue left can almost instantly oxidise a beer as these chemicals evolve pure oxygen as part of their cleaning action.

Best practice for a keg to receive a NEIPA is to clean, rinse well, then fill with starsan and push it out with either bottled or fermentation CO2. Then do a closed transfer.

That's a good point. There was a post recently where someone had used what they thought was a no-rinse sanitiser, but in fact wasn't, and oxidised the beer straight away.

What is your cleaning/sanitising regime Buffers?

 

[Buffers brewery]

How do you purge your barrel?

After sanitising I fill the barrel to the brim with fresh cold water, fit my cap and drive the water out of the beer out line using bottled CO2.
Just in case you don’t know, I have my own design of barrel cap….

…so I can see any air bubbles left in the barrel after I fit the lid and if too much I remove the lid and top up.

One other suggestion - if you use PBW/Chemclean/Oxyclean type cleaners for your barrel, it needs to be rinsed really well with hot water to ensure there's no residue.

Any residue left can almost instantly oxidise a beer as these chemicals evolve pure oxygen as part of their cleaning action.

Best practice for a keg to receive a NEIPA is to clean, rinse well, then fill with starsan and push it out with either bottled or fermentation CO2. Then do a closed transfer.

Yes, this is an area that I was considering. I clean the barrel and associated bits with oxy, rinse, sanitise with starsan and then fill with water. I’m wondering if one of the “bits” (hoses etc.) were not rinsed enough before transfer. They go through the same process as the barrel. I might try cleaning and rinsing everything the day before to give any remaining oxy time to degrade and sanitise immediately before. Could that reduce the risk?

 

[phildo79]

Checked the gravity this morning and no change from yesterday so on that confirms oxidation. Just need to revisit my process to identify how I can make it more robust. It can’t be that wrong as I’ve made 6 successful brews in the past with the same kit and process.

But do all infections produce co2, absolutely all of the time? Or is there another reason why an infection would lower the gravity?

 

[Sadfield]

Checked the gravity this morning and no change from yesterday so on that confirms oxidation.

I think you'd need to look for a change from post fermentation, racking gravity. Is it the same as it was 2 weeks ago?

 

[Buffers brewery]

I think you'd need to look for a change from post fermentation, racking gravity. Is it the same as it was 2 weeks ago?

Yes, as far as I can tell with my hydrometer.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Thanks for the opinions, analysis and advice. I agree with the majority view that it's oxidation and the most likely cause was residual oxy cleaner that had not been thoroughly rinsed from the equipment. The most likely culprit is the lid of my barrel that has three ports, two for corny posts and one a pressure gauge. I usually use a plain lid with no ports for cleaning and sanitising the barrel. However on this occasion I used the ported lid that could have resulted in oxy solution entering the pressure gauge port that would be difficult to rinse effectively. It's a theory. I'll see what happens next time I brew an NEIPA. Thanks again

 

[foxy]

But do all infections produce co2, absolutely all of the time? Or is there another reason why an infection would lower the gravity?

Every living thing needs sugar to survive, it is the sugar that attracts bacteria. As the bacteria consume the sugar the density of the wort drops therefore giving a lower gravity reading.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Will ascorbic acid survive the boil ? Something in the back if my mind is telling me that vitamin c (ascorbic acid) is destroyed by cooking (eg, boiling).

I add my ascorbic acid at the end of fermentation (rightly or wrongly)

Yes ascorbic is destroyed in the boil. In the mash and sparge it's to reduce oxidation reactions with the grains.

Adding it into fermenter helps with the packaging issues but won't resolve a major problem.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

How do you purge your barrel?

post 127 in this thread.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...a-buffers-brewery-brew-day.88546/post-1067568

 

[phildo79]

Every living thing needs sugar to survive, it is the sugar that attracts bacteria. As the bacteria consume the sugar the density of the wort drops therefore giving a lower gravity reading.

Interesting. So I definitely had an infected batch because it kept producing co2. But the second time, a couple of months later, I didn’t. But the taste was almost identical. I must have read through every beer fault known to man but could not find one that accurately reflected what I was tasting. I used Mosaic in both and someone told me that it can produce a diesel taste. That would closer to what I was tasting. So both beers tasted like crap because of the Mosaic, it’s just that the first one also happened to be infected. I’ve been scratching my head about this one for years.

 

[Buffers brewery]

By way of an epilogue to this sad tale. The final resting place of thirty five quids worth of spoilt beer

 

[phildo79]

It's the time and effort that is the boot in the balls for me, when that happens.

 

[Beermonster66]

Is that the reason your FV looks so angry?