Can I boil hops in water without any malt added?

[Treacle]

Hi all. Another newbie question following my previous Goldings and Northern Brewer hops query.

I've got my beer brewing away fine in the FV - unfortunately it's not as light in colour as I'd hoped. Not that it's a problem but I was wondering if I hadn't have boiled the medium spray malt and the can of light liquid malt would it have not become quite so dark? I was going for more of a golden coloured English pale ale but it's more of a dark amber.

This leads me to my main question: Could I just boil hops in plain water with none of the malt added? (I'm not advanced enough yet for AG) What is the main purpose of adding the extract in with the hops?

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question. I was thinking about sterilisation but isn't spraymalt and tinned liquid malt already strerilised? And if it's gonna darken the beer during the boil why can't I chuck it all in at the end?

As a relative beginner I'm sure I'm missing something here so it would be great to learn a bit more about this from you experts out there! Cheers

 

[clibit]

Malt extract dorsnt need boiling and you can boil hops in water, but the best thing to do is add some extract to the boil, as it helps with extraction of hop oils and acids. The amount depends on the boil volume, I think 500g dry malt per 10 litres is enough.

 

[Fil]

Malt extract dorsnt need boiling and you can boil hops in water, but the best thing to do is add some extract to the boil, as it helps with extraction of hop oils and acids. The amount depends on the boil volume, I think 500g dry malt per 10 litres is enough.

I dont know that malt extract wont benefit from a boil/hot break..

Dry malt extract will defiantly hit a hot break, ive witnessed it while prep-ing sterile liquor media for slant n plates.. a simple 1040 dme solution..

you can see the cloud like hot break forming after about 25mins of simmering with a foil lid..

the last few lme based kits ive picked up and looked at certainly dont demand a short boil and only suggest the use of off the boil water to rinse out the tins, so perhaps its a difference between dry and liquid extracts??

or thats not a hot break???

 

[wheazy_joe]

I've got an extract kit from the home brew company waiting to get done (I have a serious lack of time available these days), and will defo be following this thread with interest. If I don't need to boil the LME (the kit comes with 2 x 1.5l tins) then it would make my life a whole lot easier as I don't have a particularly large pot. So I'm thinking I could steep the grains as destructions, do 60min boil with hop additions again as per desrtuctions, then add this wort to the FV along with the LME and top up with cold water. Too simplistic?

 

[clibit]

I've got an extract kit from the home brew company waiting to get done (I have a serious lack of time available these days), and will defo be following this thread with interest. If I don't need to boil the LME (the kit comes with 2 x 1.5l tins) then it would make my life a whole lot easier as I don't have a particularly large pot. So I'm thinking I could steep the grains as destructions, do 60min boil with hop additions again as per desrtuctions, then add this wort to the FV along with the LME and top up with cold water. Too simplistic?

You can do that. Reducing the size of the boil reduces hop utilisation a bit, but a lot of extract brewers do a reduced boil. Brewuk kits apparently tell you to boil hops in 6 litres.

 

[wheazy_joe]

You can do that. Reducing the size of the boil reduces hop utilisation a bit, but a lot of extract brewers do a reduced boil. Brewuk kits apparently tell you to boil hops in 6 litres.

Cheers Clibit :thumb:

 

[Covrich]

I've got an extract kit from the home brew company waiting to get done (I have a serious lack of time available these days), and will defo be following this thread with interest. If I don't need to boil the LME (the kit comes with 2 x 1.5l tins) then it would make my life a whole lot easier as I don't have a particularly large pot. So I'm thinking I could steep the grains as destructions, do 60min boil with hop additions again as per desrtuctions, then add this wort to the FV along with the LME and top up with cold water. Too simplistic?

If using a smaller pan a lot of people only boil with half the extract and put the last half in at the end of the boil to aid hop utilisation..

 

[Twostage]

I dont know that malt extract wont benefit from a boil/hot break..

Dry malt extract will defiantly hit a hot break, ive witnessed it while prep-ing sterile liquor media for slant n plates.. a simple 1040 dme solution..

you can see the cloud like hot break forming after about 25mins of simmering with a foil lid..

the last few lme based kits ive picked up and looked at certainly dont demand a short boil and only suggest the use of off the boil water to rinse out the tins, so perhaps its a difference between dry and liquid extracts??

or thats not a hot break???

Malt extracts have already been through the hot break stage - it is made by boiling wort so I'm not sure what your floaty bits are :hmm:

 

[Twostage]

From what I've read (and the beer calculators seem to agree) hop utilisation decreases with increasing wort gravity, therefore the most efficient way of getting hop oils is to boil in water with nothing added.

But having finished 'for the love of hops' it is clear that the chemistry of hops is even now a mystery so whilst hop tea might be the most efficient method it might not produce the best taste.

 

[clibit]

Hop utilisation does fall with increasing gravity, but my understanding is that malt sugars help utilisation, so some malt sugar is a good thing. I may be wrong, but that's what I've read. My experience is that boiling hops in just water works, but you get a more raw hop flavour. Which you may or may not like.

 

[Twostage]

Hop utilisation does fall with increasing gravity, but my understanding is that malt sugars help utilisation, so some malt sugar is a good thing. I may be wrong, but that's what I've read. My experience is that boiling hops in just water works, but you get a more raw hop flavour. Which you may or may not like.

Yep. In the hops book he talks about 'advanced products' which is essentially hops processed into oil by CO2 extraction etc. He doesn't go into too much detail but I think they are used mainly for bittering rather than flavour and aroma. But it is attractive for the big Brewers to be able to have a high degree of control by using a processed and consistent product rather than the vagaries of fresh produce.

 

[Treacle]

This is all really useful info thanks! I think perhaps next time I do an all extract brew I'll split it and try one with just hops in water and the other with say 500g dry malt as Clibit suggested.

From what I'm assuming then is that I'd expect to get more bitterness out of the hops in the water alone but perhaps with an unwanted harsh grassiness? (This is probably wrong and very simplistic but in my head I'm comparing it to a cup of tea left with the tea bag in too long and no milk added):wha:

:

 

[Treacle]

If it just ends up more bitter but with no other aggressive flavours then it may prove useful in saving on the extra bittering hops.

 

[Festival Man]

This is all really useful info thanks! I think perhaps next time I do an all extract brew I'll split it and try one with just hops in water and the other with say 500g dry malt as Clibit suggested.

From what I'm assuming then is that I'd expect to get more bitterness out of the hops in the water alone but perhaps with an unwanted harsh grassiness? (This is probably wrong and very simplistic but in my head I'm comparing it to a cup of tea left with the tea bag in too long and no milk added):wha:

:

Yes, thats it, semi immitate the AG method, its done like that for a reason. Then, do a last edition for FLAVOUR alone with a seperate small 10 min boil in water with 50 to 100 gms of a choice hop pellets.

 

[Brewed_Force]

If you boil the hops in just water, reduce the amount of hops by around 20% to get the same result as boiling in wort.