Bulk conditioning beer?

[Andyhull]

would there be any advantage from bulk conditioning a brew in a secondary FV for a few weeks months prior to bottling?

Andy

 

[phettebs]

It depends on your goals. I do it when I want to cold condition the beer. I'll move the whole secondary into the fridge and "lager" it. I may dry hop in it for a period as well.

For stronger beers, you'd definitely want to secondary them for a time before bottling. It gives the flavours a chance to merge together and the beer a chance to mature.

But is it absolutely necessary? No. You'll still have beer either way when you are done. :thumb:
Baz

 

[PD]

Unless their is a particular reason not to. I would recommend secondary fermentation. As above it gives the yeasts time to finish off their work and it also allows the brew to drop more suspended solids out, and you will get a cleaner beer.
We rush far too much in our beer making and putting into a secondary bucket will slow you down a little to the benefit of the brew.

 

[alanywiseman.]

Unless their is a particular reason not to. I would recommend secondary fermentation. As above it gives the yeasts time to finish off their work and it also allows the brew to drop more suspended solids out, and you will get a cleaner beer.

NOt trying to be pedantic but secondary fermentation is done to carbonate your beer. Dropping a brew into a secondary FV to get it off the trub is not the same thing :thumb:

I believe you can bulk mature strong brews as the high alchol content protects them from infection (a bit). I would not do it with a weaker brew due to the worry of infection but I have never done it before. Hope that helps :

Alternativly why not keg the beer and not prime but use CO2 to purge the air space then leave to mature then bottle from the keg in say a months time? Would that work? :hmm:

 

[shearclass]

I did this for a few of my first kits, but now I am loathe to do this as I worry my brews will be oxidised by sitting in a FV without any CO2 to protect it. I ferment and fine in my first FV.

Saying that, I have recently bought a carboy to keep wine in, so when that gets freed up i coudl use it as a secondary to bulk mature beer, maybe.

 

[PD]

then we disagree over what is primary and secondary fermentation vessels and if you want to stretch it further the third fermentation ( carbonation of the bottled/kegged beer )
To me, the initial fermentation is done in vessel 1 for a little longer than the first vigorous ferment , most alcohol is produced and the debris starts to drop out. The beer is then racked off its load of trub and rubbish, into a clean FV2, the beer continues to ferment out more slowly further debris is deposited, the yeasts finish their work and die and also drop out, ( that to me has always been known as secondary fermentation ), leaving a much cleaner beer. This is then primed in bottles or kegs etc where the little added sugar activates the suspended yeasts, which should have gone into a type of suspended animation because they have used all the fermentables up, and a tiny bit more alcohol is produced but more importantly CO2 is produced to be forced back into your beer. This could be called the third fermentation. Its immaterial what we call the 3 processes and that the fact the processes merge into one another and if you wished could all be classed under Ferment 1.
I'm sure that if you dig deeper into the scientific aspect of turning water into beer there will be many more but distinctive smaller individual processes involved, but as long as the yeasts are aware of these I don't have to be.

You call it tomato I call it tomato....

 

[alanywiseman.]

then we disagree over what is primary and secondary fermentation vessels and if you want to stretch it further the third fermentation ( carbonation of the bottled/kegged beer )
To me, the initial fermentation is done in vessel 1 for a little longer than the first vigorous ferment , most alcohol is produced and the debris starts to drop out. The beer is then racked off its load of trub and rubbish, into a clean FV2, the beer continues to ferment out more slowly further debris is deposited, the yeasts finish their work and die and also drop out, ( that to me has always been known as secondary fermentation ), leaving a much cleaner beer. This is then primed in bottles or kegs etc where the little added sugar activates the suspended yeasts, which should have gone into a type of suspended animation because they have used all the fermentables up, and a tiny bit more alcohol is produced but more importantly CO2 is produced to be forced back into your beer. This could be called the third fermentation. Its immaterial what we call the 3 processes and that the fact the processes merge into one another and if you wished could all be classed under Ferment 1.
I'm sure that if you dig deeper into the scientific aspect of turning water into beer there will be many more but distinctive smaller individual processes involved, but as long as the yeasts are aware of these I don't have to be.

You call it tomato I call it tomato....

Fair point. Generally I am not pedantic about termonology and the like (as I am usually wrong) but just wanted to prevent any confusion.

and i call it a tomato not a tomato! :lol:

 

[Aleman]

I'm sure that if you dig deeper into the scientific aspect of turning water into beer there will be many more but distinctive smaller individual processes involved, but as long as the yeasts are aware of these I don't have to be.

Actually there is no such thing as Primary, Secondary or Tertiary fermentation!!, there is only fermentation and the 'ferocity' of the fermentation changes with time.

What is being talked about here is fermenter's not fermentation

Primary Fermenters (Fermening Bins, Conicals) are used for the most active phase of fermentation
Secondary fermenters (Carbouys etc) can be used for the less active phase of fermentation and
Tertaiary fermenters (Bottles and kegs/casks) are used for the least active phase

 

[PD]

see I said there would be one clever dick.................

Us lesser mortals know what we are talking about unlike the physics degree wallers on about the chaos theory. I suppose they find it better than working for a living...

 

[graysalchemy]

I would be careful of leaving a beer in an Fv for more than a few weeks at the moment unless it is 7-8%.

Fruit flies are a night mare at the moment. I have lost about 20+ gallons over the last few years to fruit flies and infection and it always happens at this time of year.

I also urge dropping into a secondry FV to get you beer out of a dirty FV. I have a bitter in one at the moment which is minging but I will not be able to do now until tommorow. Every time I open the lid some dried yeast and debris from the fermentation drops back into the beer :nono: :nono:.

However latter on in the year when it is cooler and the fruit flies have subsided then I have no problem with leaving a beer for a month to mature, but it is as already said probably only benifitial in bigger beers 6%+ in my book. :thumb:

 

[PD]

wise words....... get some of those yellow stick fly papers from garden centres tuck up around your fv's........ makes you feel real good when you see the blighters stuck to them.

 

[ScottM]

I would be careful of leaving a beer in an Fv for more than a few weeks at the moment unless it is 7-8%.

Fruit flies are a night mare at the moment. I have lost about 20+ gallons over the last few years to fruit flies and infection and it always happens at this time of year.

I also urge dropping into a secondry FV to get you beer out of a dirty FV. I have a bitter in one at the moment which is minging but I will not be able to do now until tommorow. Every time I open the lid some dried yeast and debris from the fermentation drops back into the beer :nono: :nono:.

However latter on in the year when it is cooler and the fruit flies have subsided then I have no problem with leaving a beer for a month to mature, but it is as already said probably only benifitial in bigger beers 6%+ in my book. :thumb:

Are the fruit flies an issue during the transfer or is it during the storage? I can't imagine how a fruit fly would be able to get into a sealed FV? Surely the problem occurs during the transfer, rather than during the maturing?

 

[graysalchemy]

No but if you open the lid of you Fv to have a look then they sneak in. :lol: And you do need to have a look to make sure that it isn't infected with anything else. :lol:

All it takes is one and you could end up with 5 gallons of malt vinegar and that is a lot of pickles believe me :lol: :lol:

 

[ScottM]

No but if you open the lid of you Fv to have a look then they sneak in. :lol: And you do need to have a look to make sure that it isn't infected with anything else. :lol:

All it takes is one and you could end up with 5 gallons of malt vinegar and that is a lot of pickles believe me :lol: :lol:

 

[Andyhull]

So unless the beer is of a higher percentage it's not advisable to to bulk store?
I understand about the infection issues but just wondered if there were any advantages over bulk storing, like a smoother/more balanced beer.

Im thinking about this for when i begin AG brewing for conditioning beers for long term storage :hmm:

Andy

 

[oz11]

Sometimes I condition mine in a pressure barrel. Prime with a little sugar, vent it after 24 and 48 hours then leave it for a few weeks and bottle without any further priming. I don't do it all the time. It's usually to free up the FV for a second brew in quick succession and this way I don't need to worry about bottling too early before FG is reached. I base it on the method Graham Wheeler advocates in his BYOBRA book.

I've had no problems with the bottles not carbonating and it allows me to bottle when I can face it :)

 

[graysalchemy]

Lower Abv beers will improve with time in the bottle quite happily. My 5% beers don't usually reach perfection for about 5-6 months. The bitterness becomes more rounded, the only beer I enjoyed younger was my pale ale which had loads of american citrus hops in it, the hops have now mellowed and are not as citrusy as they where before but still very good. :thumb: